Binary Black Hole in 3C 75

[harry]

Hello All

I do not know if this came up before.

If it did I'm sorry.

But! wow what an image

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060412.html

Two Black holes dancing to the same tune.

[Qev]

What a mind-blowing picture that is. Wow.

I daresay, that must be a terribly interesting neighborhood to live in.

[dogel]

I have a question but I have to set it up so bare with me.

The gravitational force from the two black holes as felt by an observer directly above or below the center of mass with respect to the plane of rotation (as to eliminate any change in the force from when the two are aligned or when one is closer than the other if they have different masses) would be F = Gm(M1+M2)/(r^2). M1 and M2 are the masses of the black holes, m is the mass of the observer, r is the distance from the observer to the gravitational center of the two black holes, and G is the gravitational constant.

Now, my question is would the force from the super-supermassive black hole be bigger, smaller, or equal to F. In other words, is there some chance that gravity (or mass) is somehow lost or gained during the process. I'm just talking about the black holes themselves and not any surrounding gases that will get sucked in and contribute to the mass.

[harry]

Hello

Gravity, electromagnetic forces and mass is not lost.


Many people think of Black Holes as from the movies. Matter just going to nothing and another dimension.

The Black Hole is an ultra massive plasma it can gain mass and eject matter. All is accounted for just like a bank.

[astroton]

dogel,

I don't want to pretend to be an expert on this nor, I believe there are many experts in the area of what happens inside a black hole.

However, a black hole, as per GTR, has a gravitational field that may vary time to time depending on the activities within.

Newtonian physics looks at gravitation as an action at a distance, which Einstein replaced with gravitational field.

The Newtonian equation that you have used tells us that the force between two massive objects depend on their masses. However, if you drop a nail and a feather, both fall on earth at the same time. That was the paradox, which made Einstein come up with GTR.

Newton's equations and Euclidean geometry hold good for small neighbourhood like solar system but when you talk about Black holes, you have to look at it as gravitational field and the spacetime dimensions, where the equation you have used is not useful.

Good Links,

http://www.eso.org/outreach/press-rel/p ... 17-02.html

http://www.mpe.mpg.de/ir/GC/index.php

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish ... khole.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001290/

http://www.fermentmagazine.org/Publicit ... dtime.html

[harry]

hello astroton

Thank you for the links

I will look at them

Happy Easter to all

[Qev]

The Newtonian equation that you have used tells us that the force between two massive objects depend on their masses. However, if you drop a nail and a feather, both fall on earth at the same time. That was the paradox, which made Einstein come up with GTR.

Actually, there's no paradox there with Newtonian gravity. The force acting between two bodies varies with their mass, but the acceleration due to gravity is also dependant on mass. For objects falling to Earth (neglecting friction with the air), this means they all fall to the Earth with constant acceleration, dependant on the mass of the Earth alone.

[harry]

Hello All

Re link
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060412.html

The two bright sources at the center of this composite x-ray (blue)/ radio (pink) image are co-orbiting supermassive black holes powering the giant radio source 3C 75. Surrounded by multimillion degree x-ray emitting gas, and blasting out jets of relativistic particles the supermassive black holes are separated by 25,000 light-years

If the separation is 25,000 light years, how big is the jsts,,,,50,000 light years. Yes another wow!

[astroton]

The Newtonian equation that you have used tells us that the force between two massive objects depend on their masses. However, if you drop a nail and a feather, both fall on earth at the same time. That was the paradox, which made Einstein come up with GTR.

Actually, there's no paradox there with Newtonian gravity. The force acting between two bodies varies with their mass, but the acceleration due to gravity is also dependant on mass. For objects falling to Earth (neglecting friction with the air), this means they all fall to the Earth with constant acceleration, dependant on the mass of the Earth alone.

Qev,

Nice pick up. You found a paradox in my statement. For a constant force when you equate m1g=Gm1mE/r2, the m1 cancels out, meaning g depends on earth's mass alone.

However, in accence the action at distance is not able to tell everything. As an example Precession of Mercury Perihelion.

That's where Newton's equation needs replacing to explain curved spacetime.

good links,

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his ... ivity.html

http://hypertextbook.com/physics/founda ... ndex.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~his ... ation.html

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_13.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_equation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/Nu ... ivity.html

[Qev]

Yup! Newton's equations are only an approximation to reality... Relativity definitely provides the more accurate answers! I just wanted to bring up the 'constant rate of acceleration' thing because that result kinda bent my head the first time I learned it.

[harry]

Hello Astroton

What subject are you doing?