Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
- orin stepanek
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Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090126.html
Did you ever notice all the stars on Pictures of Nebulae; they seem to be in front of the nebula. Yet this nebula spans only about 5 light years. The nebula must be so thin and wispy that we can see all these stars through the nebula. 8) I'm not sure which star is AE Aurigae. The brightest star is in the center but close to the bottom. I'm thinking that this must be the one.
Orin
Did you ever notice all the stars on Pictures of Nebulae; they seem to be in front of the nebula. Yet this nebula spans only about 5 light years. The nebula must be so thin and wispy that we can see all these stars through the nebula. 8) I'm not sure which star is AE Aurigae. The brightest star is in the center but close to the bottom. I'm thinking that this must be the one.
Orin
Orin
Smile today; tomorrow's another day!
Smile today; tomorrow's another day!
Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
I think AE Aurigae is just below center top to bottom and a third of the way in from the left (about the right edge of the turbulent region).
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... AE+Aurigae
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... AE+Aurigae
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- neufer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
There appears to be both footprints & pawprints
on _The Flaming Star Nebula_
Harlan Ellison's _A Boy and His Dog_ won
the Nebula Award for Best Novella in 1969.
-----------------------------------------<<AE Aurigae (AE Aur) is a runaway star
in the constellation Auriga; it lights the Flaming Star Nebula. It is a blue O-type main sequence dwarf whose brightness varies irregularly between magnitudes +5.78 and +6.08. It is a runaway star that might have been ejected during a collision of two binary star groups. This collision, which also is credited with ejecting Mu Columbae and 53 Arietis, has been traced to the Trapezium cluster in the Orion Nebula two million years ago.>>
_A Boy and His Dog_
<<A Boy and His Dog is a short story written by science fiction author Harlan Ellison in 1969. A revised and expanded version was printed in Ellison's 1976 story collection The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World, and Ellison continued the story in the graphic novel Vic and Blood which was illustrated by Richard Corben. The novella was the basis of a movie adaptation in 1974, the post-apocalyptic science fiction film of the same name, directed by L. Q. Jones working in collaboration with Harlan Ellison.
. Setting
Both the novella and the film adaptation have the same alternate timeline setting. In this, President John F. Kennedy survived the assassination attempt on his life in 1963, and under his continued terms of office and that of the other Kennedys, the advancement of technology was concentrated on and billions of dollars poured into it instead of the space race. Technology flourished in the 1960s far faster than it did in our timeline, as indeed within a few years even surpassed that point at which we are at now. Androids became common household servants across the United States before the end of the decade. Extensive research was done into the fields of extra sensory perception and telepathy, which are both proved possible, and also animal intelligence. World War III broke out and was fought by conventional means very similar to World War II, yet lasted decades with both sides suffering heavy losses and still neither gaining an upper hand. World War 3 ended in an uneasy truce, the "Vatican Armistice", in March 1983. Tensions remained however over the next 25 years, and the global economy never recovered. In 2007, global negotiations finally broke down, and subsequently World War IV broke out. However, the latter was fought with nuclear weapons, and only lasted five days, just long enough for the nuclear missiles to leave their silos on both sides. Civilization was almost entirely obliterated, leaving the surface of the Earth reduced to a desolate, irradiated desert wasteland.
. Central characters
The year in which the both the novella and the film take place is 2024. The few survivors who remain above ground must forage and fight for food, clean water, clothes, weapons, ammunition, and women. Of these necessities, women are the rarest; most survivors are male because while the males were off fighting in the wars, their enemies bombed and destroyed their homes. Among these survivors, it has become a rule of dog eat dog.
The main character, Vic (portrayed by a 25-year-old Don Johnson in the film), is an 18-year-old boy, born in the ruins of Phoenix, Arizona, in the year 2006. In both the novel and the film, Vic is focused on stealing food and fulfilling his sexual needs.
Vic is fairly base, having lost both of his parents in the nuclear war, and having had no formal education. Neither does he understand the principles of ethics or morality. Satisfying his carnal desires remain Vic's main motivation throughout the story. He is accompanied by a well-read and wise-cracking telepathic dog named Blood, an "experienced female provider", using his advanced senses of smell and hearing. Blood's main motivation is food, most notably his favourite, popcorn, which Vic is able to provide by theft or by purchasing it from the various vendors in the wastelands._Jewish Singles Night_ {Seinfeld} wrote: Kramer: Ya know these latkes are going like hotcakes.
.
Frank: Where's the powdered sugar?
.
Kramer: You know Frank, you could take a break.
.
Frank: No breaks. I fell reborn,
. I'm like a PHOENIX rising from Arizona.
----------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, the two have a successful working partnership as they scavenge across the deserts of the Southwestern United States, stealing for a living and evading bands of roving marauders, beserk androids and mutants. Vic looks up to Blood as a teacher and a father figure, and Blood views Vic with equal fondness as a protégé, even though at times Blood is frustrated with Vic's unwillingness to learn and his rebellious nature. Although the two argue over trivial matters and threaten each other much, nothing ever comes of these arguments and threats, and in the end both agree (somewhat reluctantly at times) that they both need each other to survive. They have also been together since Vic was born and Blood a small puppy.
In addition to locating women for Vic to befriend, Blood also has the unenviable task of trying to educate Vic and keep him safe from harm. Blood is the result of genetic experimentation, which resulted in an intelligent canine mutation with telepathic abilities. However, the only human Blood can communicate with is Vic, whom Blood refers to as "Albert" as a "term of endearment." Blood's opinion of the human race is not generally a positive one, and Blood is something of a misanthrope. As Blood notes, "human sex is an ugly thing". This opinion of humans may have something to do with the fact that Blood is most likely the most intelligent and learned living thing left in the world, and he looks down upon the "stupidity" of humans. Blood does however have a more positive outlook on life in general, and believes in a place untouched by nuclear radiation he heard about from a police dog. Blood refers to this place at various times as "Over The Hill" and the "Promised Land", where "deer and the antelope play and it's warm and clean and we can relax and have fun, and grow food right out of the ground." Blood wants to look for "Over The Hill" with Vic, but Vic does not entertain it as a sensible suggestion. Vic states that their current situation is as good as it gets, and there is no "Over The Hill."
. Plot summary
The remnants of civilization has gone into the "downunder", a subsurface setting, with artificial sunlight, hydroponic bays, biospheres (with similarities to the Eden Project) and even functional, living forests. One such underground city, referred to as Topeka due to the ruins of the city it lies beneath, is fashioned in a mockery of 1950s rural innocence and brave-new-worldian madness, with all the inhabitants wearing dungarees and mime makeup. Topeka solves its need for exogamous reproduction by forcibly extracting fluids from sperm donors with machines and artificial insemination, yet the subterranean city with its limited population is still running low on viable donors. Anybody who refuses to comply, or shows any disregard to the committee whatsoever, is sent off to "the farm", and is never seen again. Even when someone becomes no longer useful to the society, they are sent there. "Heart attacks" and "farming accidents" are given as reasons for the unexplained disappearances. However, the inhabitants of the underground city are so brainwashed that they either do not realize, or do not protest.
Quilla June Holmes (portrayed by Susanne Benton in the film), the scheming and seductive daughter of one of Topeka's committee leaders, Lou Craddock (portrayed by Jason Robards in the film), is sent by her father to the surface to bait Vic into much needed "service", which Vic thinks is his dream come true as he believes he will be impregnating the women of Topeka by more conventional means. Blood takes an immediate disliking to Quilla, sensing something wrong, and warns Vic, but Vic will not listen. After saving Quilla's life from a band of raiders, and after, some mutants referred to as "screamers", Vic then spends an amorous night with her. In the morning she knocks Vic unconscious and flees. However, she had told Vic about where she lives, and also deliberately left an access card to the vault door so that he could follow her down there. Vic, completely taken by the idea of women and sex, takes leave of his lifelong friend Blood despite Blood's pleading and pursues the young lady into the downunder. He soon learns the harsh reality of the authoritarian committee and of its need for his semen, and is strapped to a table and a machine is used for this purpose. Vic is told that, when his sperm has impregnated 35 women, he will be sent to "the farm", as they will no longer have any use for Vic.
Quilla June, along with a few other rebellious teenagers, have other plans for Vic. They free him from captivity and beg him to kill the committee members and their android enforcer Michael (performed by former Californian boxing champion Hal Baylor in the film), thus leaving Quilla June in power. Vic, however, has interest in neither politics nor in remaining underground. Nevertheless, before Vic can shoot Lou Craddock, the other rebellious teenagers are captured by Micheal and have their skulls crushed by Micheal's bare hands. Vic manages to disable Michael with a heavy barrage of bullets. Still, knowing that her plan is foiled, and her co-conspirators dead, and also after overhearing her own father ordering her execution, Quilla decides Vic is her only chance and decides to escape to the surface with him. To this end, she tells Vic that she loves him, although this is clearly a lie to save her own skin (she was also apparently romantically involved with one of her late co-conspirators, although this may have been done also to her own ends.)
It is at this point that the novel ends, with the trio going off to look for Blood's "Over The Hill" (which in Vic's mind is a place filled with designer clothes, guns and gorgeous chicks), but in the film the story does not end at this point.
.
In the film, Vic and Quilla discover when emerging to the surface that Blood is starving as he was not able to find food without Vic, because Blood is an elderly dog and has a broken leg from an earlier fight with a raider's dog. Blood is near death. Vic faces a difficult situation, and in a twist ending, it is implied he kills his new love and cooks her to save Blood, as a bonfire is shown barbecuing food. She only disappears and the dialog suggests her fate - Blood states "Well, I'd certainly say she had marvelous judgment, Albert, if not particularly good taste." In the introduction of the Vic and Blood anthology, Ellison criticized the film's "moronic, hateful chauvinist last line, which I despise.">>
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Last edited by neufer on Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Art Neuendorffer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
That's the one I thought was the star. Seems like it cleared out some of the dust around it.bystander wrote:I think AE Aurigae is just below center top to bottom and a third of the way in from the left (about the right edge of the turbulent region).
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... AE+Aurigae
Orin
Orin
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
It is certainly more noticeable in this rotated view:bystander wrote:I think AE Aurigae is just below center top to bottom and a third of the way in from the left (about the right edge of the turbulent region).
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... AE+Aurigae
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031124.html
Art Neuendorffer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
I don't think that is the star I was looking at; and it certainly is more noticeable. Thanks Art.neufer wrote:It is certainly more noticeable in this rotated view:bystander wrote:I think AE Aurigae is just below center top to bottom and a third of the way in from the left (about the right edge of the turbulent region).
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... AE+Aurigae
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031124.html
Orin
Orin
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
Practically every nebulous object we see: galaxies, comets, and nebulas themselves, would basically qualify as hard vacuums by most laboratory standards. The only reason we see them at all is because they are so big, even their extreme tenuousness starts attenuating light (or, in the case of emission nebulas, produces enough light to be visible).orin stepanek wrote:Did you ever notice all the stars on Pictures of Nebulae; they seem to be in front of the nebula. Yet this nebula spans only about 5 light years. The nebula must be so thin and wispy that we can see all these stars through the nebula.
Chris
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
"Is star AE Aurigae on fire? No." ( From the APOD description accompanying the photo.)
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.
Seriously folks, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but perhaps one reason for a commented on lack of draw into the forum is that at least one of the apod editors writing the descriptions seems to think the average person viewing the photos is 6 years old. This kind of language is used often.
(Of course, perhaps stars are not thought of as being 'on fire' in scientific terms? Or, perhaps we're all, including whoever wrote the description, becoming physically, emotionally, intellectually exhausted from our daily interaction with the traumatic meaninglessness of what occurs 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days of each year of our New Era. the writer has my full sympathy.
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.
Seriously folks, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but perhaps one reason for a commented on lack of draw into the forum is that at least one of the apod editors writing the descriptions seems to think the average person viewing the photos is 6 years old. This kind of language is used often.
(Of course, perhaps stars are not thought of as being 'on fire' in scientific terms? Or, perhaps we're all, including whoever wrote the description, becoming physically, emotionally, intellectually exhausted from our daily interaction with the traumatic meaninglessness of what occurs 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days of each year of our New Era. the writer has my full sympathy.
Duty done .. the rain will stop as promised with the rainbow.
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
I thought the writeup was excellent. I do a lot of astronomy outreach, and it is a common misconception that stars are on fire, or that they are burning (and not just amongst 6 year olds). Using the Flaming Star Nebula as an opportunity for education about this misconception was quite nice.aristarchusinexile wrote:"Is star AE Aurigae on fire? No." ( From the APOD description accompanying the photo.)
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.
Chris
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
aristarchusinexile wrote:"Is star AE Aurigae on fire? No." ( From the APOD description accompanying the photo.)
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.
By that definition, stars are not on fire. Most definitions of fire do not include nuclear fusion.APOD wrote:Fire, typically defined as the rapid molecular acquisition of oxygen
I also thought the caption well written.
- neufer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
-------------------------------------------------bystander wrote:aristarchusinexile wrote:"Is star AE Aurigae on fire? No." ( From the APOD description accompanying the photo.)
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.By that definition, stars are not on fire. Most definitions of fire do not include nuclear fusion.APOD wrote:Fire, typically defined as the rapid molecular acquisition of oxygen
I also thought the caption well written.
. Hamlet > Act II, scene II
.
LORD POLONIUS: [Reads]
.
. 'Doubt thou the stars are fire;
. Doubt that the sun doth move;
. Doubt truth to be a liar;
---------------------------------------------------
. Macbeth > Act I, scene IV
.
MACBETH: Stars, hide your fires;
---------------------------------------------------
. Hamlet > Act I, scene I
.
HORATIO: As stars with trains of fire and dews of blood,
. Disasters in the sun; and the moist star
. Upon whose influence Neptune's empire stands
. Was sick almost to doomsday with eclipse:
---------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
Yes, I guess my criticism was mostly uncalled for, although I think the question in the description could have been written as if to a mature audience. Chris, as someone who does astronomy outreach, can you please explain to me why the galaxies on the borders of voids align themselves parallel?Chris Peterson wrote:I thought the writeup was excellent. I do a lot of astronomy outreach, and it is a common misconception that stars are on fire, or that they are burning (and not just amongst 6 year olds). Using the Flaming Star Nebula as an opportunity for education about this misconception was quite nice.aristarchusinexile wrote:"Is star AE Aurigae on fire? No." ( From the APOD description accompanying the photo.)
If the star is not on fire it must be a dark star and not visible.
Duty done .. the rain will stop as promised with the rainbow.
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
Are we reading the same description? This one seems to me one of the most high level I've seen.aristarchusinexile wrote:Yes, I guess my criticism was mostly uncalled for, although I think the question in the description could have been written as if to a mature audience.
"Fire, typically defined as the rapid molecular acquisition of oxygen, happens only when sufficient oxygen is present and is not important in such high-energy, low-oxygen environments such as stars."
"The material that appears as smoke is mostly interstellar hydrogen, but does contain smoke-like dark filaments of carbon-rich dust grains."
"AE Aurigae, visible near the nebula center, is so hot it is blue, emitting light so energetic it knocks electrons away from surrounding gas."
"When a proton recaptures an electron, red light is frequently emitted, as seen in the surrounding emission nebula."
These are all topics of college level astronomy, and not likely to be encountered in any form by students before late High School. With its catchy little intro, and nice technical discussion, I think the text with this APOD is very good, and certainly not aiming low or talking down to anybody.
Chris
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
It was the first few words which drew my attention. Anyway, you and I don't see eye to eye often Chris. But that's okay. Nereid suggested I ask in the forum for an explanation as to why spirals galaxies lie parallel to the borders of voids .. so, I'm asking.Chris Peterson wrote:Are we reading the same description? This one seems to me one of the most high level I've seen.aristarchusinexile wrote:Yes, I guess my criticism was mostly uncalled for, although I think the question in the description could have been written as if to a mature audience.
"Fire, typically defined as the rapid molecular acquisition of oxygen, happens only when sufficient oxygen is present and is not important in such high-energy, low-oxygen environments such as stars."
"The material that appears as smoke is mostly interstellar hydrogen, but does contain smoke-like dark filaments of carbon-rich dust grains."
"AE Aurigae, visible near the nebula center, is so hot it is blue, emitting light so energetic it knocks electrons away from surrounding gas."
"When a proton recaptures an electron, red light is frequently emitted, as seen in the surrounding emission nebula."
These are all topics of college level astronomy, and not likely to be encountered in any form by students before late High School. With its catchy little intro, and nice technical discussion, I think the text with this APOD is very good, and certainly not aiming low or talking down to anybody.
Duty done .. the rain will stop as promised with the rainbow.
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
"Abandon the Consensus for Individual Thought"
Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
This question and its answer have been moved to here.aristarchusinexile wrote:Nereid suggested I ask in the forum for an explanation as to why spirals galaxies lie parallel to the borders of voids .. so, I'm asking.
- orin stepanek
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
Hi Art! I looked but can't find the foot and paw prints, My imagination must not be working today. That's OK though; I see a face at the bottom of the nebula. 8)
Orin
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
Look to the left of bystander's circled "AE Aurigae"orin stepanek wrote:Hi Art! I looked but can't find the foot and paw prints, My imagination must not be working today.
That's OK though; I see a face at the bottom of the nebula. 8)
for a footprint and below "AE Aurigae" for pawprints:
(If you happen to see extra toes blame it on World War IV.)
Of course the whole pink area could be a footprint
(not to mention the whole flame nebula, itself):
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap031124.html
Last edited by neufer on Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Art Neuendorffer
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
OK; works for me! 8)
Orin
Orin
Orin
Smile today; tomorrow's another day!
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Re: Flaming Star Nebula (2009 Jan 26)
This topic seems to have lost its focus. Locked by request of OP.
Topic reopened by consent of OP. Off topic posts moved here.
Topic reopened by consent of OP. Off topic posts moved here.
Last edited by bystander on Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: unlocked
Reason: unlocked