Beneath the South Pole of Saturn (APOD 27 Oct 2008)

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Expand view Topic review: Beneath the South Pole of Saturn (APOD 27 Oct 2008)

Re: Beneath the South Pole of Saturn (APOD 27 Oct 2008)

by neufer » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:10 pm

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/13/your-cassini-awesomeness-for-today/ wrote: <<Yegads! If you’re asking yourself, "What the frak is that?" then join the club. I kinda sorta understand what’s going on, but the details! Yikes!*

What you’re looking at is an incredibly detailed image of Saturn’s south pole (with ten times better resolution than any image taken before), taken by the Cassini spacecraft. It was taken from an angle, but then mathematically "deprojected" to make it look like you are hovering over the pole and looking down.

Previous images showed some sort of weird rotating vortex at the pole. It was thought that the edges were clouds at high altitude (40 – 70 km above the inner deck) surrounding a region of clear air. But this image shows the central air isn’t clear at all; there are clouds in it, forming a loose inner ring. They are convection clouds; something like cumulonimbus clouds on Earth.

Convection is when hot air rises and cold air sinks. This can happen in cells, self-contained regions in the atmosphere. This occurs pretty much whenever you have a temperature gradient vertically; that is, when it’s hot underneath something cold. Saturn’s interior is hot, so the air rises, gets up to some altitude, cools, and sinks.

In fact, the entire gigantic vortex — it’s 4000 km across, folks — is a convection feature. The relatively clear center indicates this is warm air, which makes it similar to the eye of a hurricane on Earth. However, on Earth, convection doesn’t occur in the eye, leaving it clear and free of clouds. But the clouds in the middle of this Saturnian region indicate convection is happening on smaller scales there too… meaning the analog of this region to a hurricane only goes so far.

Some of the inner clouds are "S"-shaped. They get that way due to Saturn’s rotation making them spin (I’ve seen demos of liquids in spinning bowls that look exactly like this). At the upper left of the inner ring you can see one cloud that looks like an oval; that’s actually the eye of a smaller hurricane-like structure. Its rising air has cleared through Saturn’s haze layer, allowing us to see the circular structure.

The power for all this comes from the heat deep inside Saturn, aided by its rapid 10-hour rotation. Saturn is much larger than Earth, so its rapid rotation means things are spinning around there quickly. Even at Saturn’s poles, unlike Earth’s, there’s enough rotational momentum to keep hurricanes circulating.

So there’s a basic understanding of some of what’s going on in this image, but the details — what’s powering the smaller convection cells; why is one big enough to punch through the lower atmosphere, what’s the chemical composition of these features, how long do they last, how old is this whole vortex thingy — are still head-scratchers.

I imagine images like this will keep planetary atmospheric scientists gleefully arguing with each other for years. That’s one thing I kinda miss about not doing research: the debating over what the heck we’re seeing. When Hubble images would come in, we’d all gather around someone’s computer screen and point and talk and conjecture and speculate, and generally have a blast. It was only later, when we had to dig in and do the dirty work that we started to get our real answers. Sometimes you can see what’s going on just by looking at a picture, and other times — like with this shot of Saturn — it shows us that there’s a lot left to figure out.>>

by DavidLeodis » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:18 pm

I apologise to any aliens reading this topic for my poorly chosen word. If you feel the need to take revenge please take it out on me and not Earth (or whatever it is you call our planet). Oh, just in case you are around Gort, I would like to say 'Klaatu barada nikto'. :oops: :)

by BMAONE23 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:24 am

apodman wrote:
DavidLeodis wrote:I can imagine something opening the bottom and stepping out!
Not someone? That kind of insensitive comment might be regarded by aliens as dehumanizing! :(
Either that or "Alienating"
:wink:

by apodman » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:44 am

DavidLeodis wrote:I can imagine something opening the bottom and stepping out!
Not someone? That kind of insensitive comment might be regarded by aliens as dehumanizing! :(

by DavidLeodis » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:55 pm

The image is fascinating (so is the colour version that is seen through the "above image" link in the explanation to the APOD). The version used for the APOD does remind me lots of the flying saucers seen in old movies! I can imagine something opening the bottom and stepping out! :)

by BMAONE23 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:57 pm

The linked image shows a better example in the portion of the image that isn't displayed. If you look at the upper image, you see a blue haze covering the area above appx 80d South. I think this is the haze they refer to that seemingly disappears

by Indigo_Sunrise » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:31 pm

Thank you Orin, for that response. At least I know it's not my monitor that's had the settings go all wonky on me. :lol:

Yet.... :(

equater

by orin stepanek » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:33 pm

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap081027.html

Hi Indigo! there just isn't enough of the picture to show the equater. (Clouds visible toward the pole.) I wonder if the reference is to the clouds north of the pole.
Orin

Beneath the South Pole of Saturn (APOD 27 Oct 2008)

by Indigo_Sunrise » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:33 am

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap081027.html

WRT this sentence:
Surprisingly, a haze of upper level clouds visible towards Saturn's equator disappears near the pole, including over Saturn's strange polar vortex.

could someone please point out where the equator is in the image? It seems to me that the image is showing an area well south of the equator, and I am having trouble identifying the hazy clouds. Even after viewing the higher resolution image available by clicking the image. (Unless it's a monitor issue I'm having..? :oops: )

And that polar vortex is really amazing!!!! 8)

Thanks in advance!

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