Ithaca Chasma (APOD 24 Jun 2008)

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) :ssmile: :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol2: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen:
View more smilies

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Ithaca Chasma (APOD 24 Jun 2008)

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by neufer » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:05 am

neufer wrote:The _Odyssey_ emphasis is on the
"generational" 20 year total absence of Odysseus:
-----------------------------------------------
BOOK XIX

"Madam," answered Ulysses, "it is such a long time ago that I can
hardly say. *TWENTY YEARS* are come and gone since he left my home,
and went elsewhither; but I will tell you as well as I can recollect.

"Nurse, do you wish to be the ruin of me, you who nursed me at your
own breast, now that after *TWENTY YEARS* of wandering I am at last
come to my own home again?
................................
BOOK XXIII

"Mother- but you are so hard that I cannot call you by such a name-
why do you keep away from my father in this way? Why do you not sit
by his side and begin talking to him and asking him questions? No
other woman could bear to keep away from her husband when he had come
back to her after *TWENTY YEARS* of absence, and after having gone
through so much; but your heart always was as hard as a stone."

"My dear," said he,
"heaven has endowed you with a heart more unyielding than woman
ever yet had. No other woman could bear to keep away from her
husband when he had come back to her after *TWENTY YEARS* of absence,
and after having gone through so much. But come, nurse, get a bed
ready for me; I will sleep alone, for this woman has a heart
as hard as iron."
................................
BOOK XXIV

A dark cloud of sorrow fell upon Laertes as he listened. He filled
both hands with the dust from off the ground and poured it over his
grey head, groaning heavily as he did so. The heart of Ulysses was
touched, and his nostrils quivered as he looked upon his father; then
he sprang towards him, flung his arms about him and kissed him, saying,
"I am he, father, about whom you are asking- I have returned after
having been away for *TWENTY YEARS*. But cease your sighing and lamentation-
we have no time to lose, for I should tell you that I have been killing
the suitors in my house, to punish them for their insolence and crimes."
The Thera volcanic eruption in the southern Aegean Sea in 1645 B.C.
devastated much of Ionian, Greek & Cretan culture but this culture
could still have continued to flourish among "the wise Odysseans"
on the protected isle of Ithaca in the Adriatic.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tsunami/once-nf.html
.
I believe that two significant astrological events
(~ one [20 year] generation apart) might have had
a profound effect on this sophisticated survival culture:

1) The noontime total solar eclipse of April 16, 1178 BC
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/- ... -04-16.gif

Code: Select all

Solar System: Wed -1177 Apr 16 17:57
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar
.
.             Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.           Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
Venus       22h 12m 55s   -12° 35.3'     0.938    27.497   44.074 Up
Mars        23h 27m 47s    -4° 31.6'     2.313    43.410   28.720 Up
.
Sun          0h 52m 22s    +5° 42.9'     1.015    57.710   -1.205 Up
Moon         0h 52m 26s    +6° 19.0'   58.0 ER    58.311   -1.260 Up
.
Mercury      0h 13m 24s    +0°  5.5'     1.269    51.177   14.603 Up
.
Jupiter      3h 44m 11s   +20°  4.4'     5.920    48.353  -77.108 Up
Saturn       4h  2m 31s   +20° 17.1'     9.662    44.930  -80.911 Up
soon followed by a Mars/Venus clustering
and a Saturn/Jupiter (/Mercury?) clustering.

Code: Select all

 Solar System: Tue -1177 Jun 3 22:26
.
.             Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.           Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
Mars         1h 32m 25s    +9° 17.5'     2.206    -5.155  106.034 Set
Venus        1h 37m 50s    +8° 23.0'     1.279    -4.706  104.474 Set
.
Sun          3h 51m 41s   +20° 31.5'     1.017    28.497   94.710 Up
.
Saturn       4h 26m 28s   +21° 24.3'    10.036    35.815   90.421 Up
Jupiter      4h 26m 32s   +22°  6.7'     6.260    36.202   91.152 Up
.
Mercury      5h 43m  2s   +23° 44.3'     0.794    52.062   80.137 Up
and 2) the sunrise appearance of a PRIOR Mars/Venus clustering
and Saturn/Jupiter/Mercury clustering. on November 4 1198 BC.

Code: Select all

Solar System: Fri -1197 Nov 4 12:26:52  (sunrise)
.
.            Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.           Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
Saturn      12h 41m 55s    -2°  4.3'    11.044    20.446  -70.110 Up
Mercury     12h 43m 41s    -1° 54.2'     0.905    20.233  -70.555 Up
Jupiter     12h 41m 51s    -3° 22.9'     6.268    19.576  -69.067 Up
.
Venus       13h 10m 19s    -9° 45.3'     0.271    10.061  -69.084 Up
Mars        13h 15m 31s    -7° 53.4'     2.451    10.332  -71.368 Up
.
Sun         13h 56m  0s   -12°  5.5'     0.983    -0.000  -74.584 Up
These 5 planets ARE the "Oxen of the Sun" whose dispersal the next
time Jupiter/Odysseus returned to the solar region 12 years later:

Code: Select all

 Solar System: Sat -1185 Oct 21 21:45
.
.             Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.           Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
Jupiter     12h 43m 46s    -3° 38.2'     6.327    17.876   70.334 Up
.
Sun         13h  4m  7s    -6° 57.3'     0.985    19.301   64.123 Up
Venus       13h  5m 30s    -6° 18.4'     1.710    19.999   64.361 Up
.
Mercury     14h 22m 41s   -17°  5.4'     1.007    23.767   41.277 Up
.
Mars        20h 17m 26s   -22° 14.5'     0.859    13.915  -46.493 Up
Saturn      21h 30m 54s   -17° 28.5'     8.697     5.628  -62.618 Up
...would require (via Aeolus's wind sack) Jupiter/Odysseus
to sail for yet another 7+ years (~ Calypso-Circe time)
before returning to his father Saturn/Laertes.
------------------------------------
Then Minerva said, "Father, *son of Saturn*, King of kings,..."
.
Then Minerva said, "Father, *son of Saturn*, King of kings,..."
.
"For six days my men kept driving in the best cows and feasting upon
them, but when Jove the *son of Saturn* had added a seventh day, the
fury of the gale abated; we therefore went on board, raised our masts,
spread sail, and put out to sea. As soon as we were well away from the
island, and could see nothing but sky and sea, the *son of Saturn*
raised a black cloud over our ship, and the sea grew dark beneath it."
.
But let us say no more about him, and leave him to be taken, or else
to escape if the *son of Saturn* holds his hand over him to protect
him.
.
The suitors were dismayed, and turned colour as they heard it; at that
moment, moreover, Jove thundered loudly as a sign, and the heart of
Ulysses rejoiced as he heard the omen that the *son of scheming
Saturn* had sent him.

Then Minerva said to Jove, "Father, *son of Saturn*, king of kings,
answer me this question- What do you propose to do? Will you set them
fighting still further, or will you make peace between them?"

Then the *son of Saturn* sent a thunderbolt of fire that fell just in
front of Minerva, so she said to Ulysses, "Ulysses, noble son of
Laertes, stop this warful strife, or Jove will be angry with you.

by bystander » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:05 pm

Tales Of Brave Ulysses
by Eric Clapton and Martin Sharp

You thought the leaden winter would bring you down forever,
But you rode upon a steamer to the violence of the sun.

And the colors of the sea blind your eyes with trembling mermaids,
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses:
How his naked ears were tortured by the sirens sweetly singing,
For the sparkling waves are calling you to kiss their white laced lips.

And you see a girl's brown body dancing through the turquoise,
And her footprints make you follow where the sky loves the sea.
And when your fingers find her, she drowns you in her body,
Carving deep blue ripples in the tissues of your mind.

The tiny purple fishes run laughing through your fingers,
And you want to take her with you to the hard land of the winter.

Her name is Aphrodite and she rides a crimson shell,
And you know you cannot leave her for you touched the distant sands
With tales of brave Ulysses; how his naked ears were tortured
By the sirens sweetly singing.

The tiny purple fishes run lauging through your fingers,
And you want to take her with you to the hard land of the winter.

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by neufer » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:06 pm

bystander wrote:
neufer wrote:The Odyssey emphasis is on the "generational" 20 year total absence of Odysseus:
My understanding is that The Odyssey is the 10 year return trip and subsequent events.
The 20 year absence includes 10 years of the Trojan War (The Illiad, et al).
Correct.

But the chronological emphasis is almost always on the TOTAL 20 year absence and
the special generational relationship between Telemachus, Odysseus & Laertes
(mirrored, in a way, by Mercury, Jupiter & Saturn).
------------------------------------
Now Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions occur only about every 20 years or so;
perhaps Odysseus left Ithaca during a rare Mercury/Jupiter/Saturn triple conjunction:

Code: Select all

November 4, 1198 BC: (Fri -1197 Nov 4 17:57)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar
.
.              Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.            Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
MERCURY     12h 44m 11s    -1° 57.8'     0.910    45.832   29.918 Up
Jupiter     12h 42m  2s    -3° 24.0'     6.266    44.301   29.817 Up
Saturn      12h 42m  1s    -2°  4.9'    11.042    45.509   30.562 Up
Note: *MERCURY* Jupiter & Saturn only get this close to each other
(i.e., within 1.6° so as to be easily coverable with a thumb at arms length)
. only once every 50,000 years or so!! :
-----------------------------------------------
Then Minerva said, "Father, son of Saturn, King of kings,..."
.
Then Minerva said, "Father, son of Saturn, King of kings,..."
.
"For six days my men kept driving in the best cows and feasting upon them, but when Jove the son of Saturn had added a seventh day, the fury of the gale abated; we therefore went on board, raised our masts, spread sail, and put out to sea. As soon as we were well away from the island, and could see nothing but sky and sea, the son of Saturn raised a black cloud over our ship, and the sea grew dark beneath it."
.
But let us say no more about him, and leave him to be taken, or else to escape if the son of Saturn holds his hand over him to protect him.
.
The suitors were dismayed, and turned colour as they heard it; at that moment, moreover, Jove thundered loudly as a sign, and the heart of Ulysses rejoiced as he heard the omen that the son of scheming Saturn had sent him.

Then Minerva said to Jove, "Father, son of Saturn, king of kings, answer me this question- What do you propose to do? Will you set them fighting still further, or will you make peace between them?"

Then the son of Saturn sent a thunderbolt of fire that fell just in front of Minerva, so she said to Ulysses, "Ulysses, noble son of Laertes, stop this warful strife, or Jove will be angry with you.

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by bystander » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:40 pm

neufer wrote:The Odyssey emphasis is on the "generational" 20 year total absence of Odysseus:
My understanding is that The Odyssey is the 10 year return trip and subsequent events. The 20 year absence includes 10 years of the Trojan War (The Illiad, et al).

by neufer » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:01 am

-------------------------------------------
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080624.html-------------------------------------------
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap0709 ... ist]<<Some moons wouldn't survive the collision. Tethys, one of Saturn's larger moons at about 1000 kilometers in diameter, survived the collision, but sports today the expansive impact crater Odysseus. Sometimes called the Great Basin, Odysseus occurs on the leading hemisphere of Tethys and shows its great age by the relative amount of smaller craters that occur inside its towering walls. Another large crater, Melanthius, is visible near the moon's terminator.>>[/list]-------------------------------------------
The Ithaca Chasma might be a consequence
of Odysseus's rough treatment of Melanthius:

<<Melanthius is one of the minor characters who plays an important role in the context of Homer's epic poem, The Odyssey. He is a disloyal goatherd, treating Odysseus with contempt when Odysseus meets him by the fountain dedicated to the nymphs with Eumaeus, disguised as a beggar. Melanthius also mocks him at the palace in Ithaca but meets his end at the hands of Odysseus. Melanthius, in helping the suitors, betrays Odysseus. When Odysseus wins, he seizes Melanthius, takes him to a court, chops off his nose and ears with a sword, pulls off his genitals to feed to the dogs, and then chops his hands and feet off.>> - From Wikipedia

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by neufer » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:45 pm

bystander wrote:
neufer wrote:It would have been even more embarrassing if Odysseus had returned home before the war began!
Yes, that would have been quite embarrassing for Odysseus. But for a science writer to place 1178 BCE before 1190 BCE should be a major foopah. If I were Choi, I would be extremely embarassed.

I haven't read The Odyssey since 7th grade literature, (a lifetime ago). Does Homer's timeline of Odysseus's wandering before returning to Ithaca agree with the ~12 year gap between the fall of Troy and this solar eclipse? This would seem to be the case if Magnasco and Baikouzis are trying to suggest that Homer's account is factual.

Nevermind, according to wikipedia, The Odyssey is a 10 year event. Magnasco and Baikouzis may be on to something. What kind of information did Homer have access to some 400 years after the event?
The _Odyssey_ emphasis is on the
"generational" 20 year total absence of Odysseus:
-----------------------------------------------
BOOK XIX

"Madam," answered Ulysses, "it is such a long time ago that I can
hardly say. *TWENTY YEARS* are come and gone since he left my home,
and went elsewhither; but I will tell you as well as I can recollect.

"Nurse, do you wish to be the ruin of me, you who nursed me at your
own breast, now that after *TWENTY YEARS* of wandering I am at last
come to my own home again?
................................
BOOK XXIII

"Mother- but you are so hard that I cannot call you by such a name-
why do you keep away from my father in this way? Why do you not sit
by his side and begin talking to him and asking him questions? No
other woman could bear to keep away from her husband when he had come
back to her after *TWENTY YEARS* of absence, and after having gone
through so much; but your heart always was as hard as a stone."

"My dear," said he,
"heaven has endowed you with a heart more unyielding than woman
ever yet had. No other woman could bear to keep away from her
husband when he had come back to her after *TWENTY YEARS* of absence,
and after having gone through so much. But come, nurse, get a bed
ready for me; I will sleep alone, for this woman has a heart
as hard as iron."
................................
BOOK XXIV

A dark cloud of sorrow fell upon Laertes as he listened. He filled
both hands with the dust from off the ground and poured it over his
grey head, groaning heavily as he did so. The heart of Ulysses was
touched, and his nostrils quivered as he looked upon his father; then
he sprang towards him, flung his arms about him and kissed him, saying,
"I am he, father, about whom you are asking- I have returned after
having been away for *TWENTY YEARS*. But cease your sighing and lamentation-
we have no time to lose, for I should tell you that I have been killing
the suitors in my house, to punish them for their insolence and crimes."
------------------------------------
Now Jupiter/Saturn conjunctions occur only about every 20 years
or so perhaps the Mercurial Odysseus left Ithaca during
a rare Mercury/Jupiter/Saturn triple conjunction:

Code: Select all

November 4, 1198 BC: (Fri -1197 Nov 4 17:57)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar
.
.              Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.            Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
.
MERCURY     12h 44m 11s    -1° 57.8'     0.910    45.832   29.918 Up
Jupiter     12h 42m  2s    -3° 24.0'     6.266    44.301   29.817 Up
Saturn      12h 42m  1s    -2°  4.9'    11.042    45.509   30.562 Up
Note: *MERCURY* Jupiter & Saturn only get this close
. to each other (i.e., within 1.6°)
. only once every 50,000 years or so!! :
-----------------------------------------------
BOOK V

"What, my dear, are you talking about?" replied [Jupiter] , "did you
not send him there yourself, because you thought it would help Ulysses
to get home and punish the suitors? Besides, you are perfectly able
to protect Telemachus, and to see him safely home again, while the
suitors have to come hurry-skurrying back without having killed him."

When he had thus spoken, he said to his son *MERCURY*, "MERCURY, you
are our messenger, go therefore and tell Calypso we have decreed that
poor Ulysses is to return home. He is to be convoyed neither by gods
nor men, but after a perilous voyage of *TWENTY DAYS* upon a raft he
is to reach fertile Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians, who are near
of kin to the gods, and will honour him as though he were one of ourselves.

They will send him in a ship to his own country, and will give him
more bronze and gold and raiment than he would have brought back from
Troy, if he had had had all his prize money and had got home without
disaster. This is how we have settled that he shall return to his
country and his friends."

Thus he spoke, and *MERCURY*, guide and guardian, slayer of Argus, did
as he was told. Forthwith he bound on his glittering golden sandals
with which he could fly like the wind over land and sea. He took the
wand with which he seals men's eyes in sleep or wakes them just as
he pleases, and flew holding it in his hand over Pieria; then he swooped
down through the firmament till he reached the level of the sea, whose
waves he skimmed like a cormorant that flies fishing every hole and
corner of the ocean, and drenching its thick plumage in the spray.
He flew and flew over many a weary wave, but when at last he got to
the island which was his journey's end, he left the sea and went on
by land till he came to the cave where the nymph Calypso lived.

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by bystander » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:52 pm

neufer wrote:It would have been even more embarrassing if Odysseus had returned home before the war began!
Yes, that would have been quite embarrassing for Odysseus. But for a science writer to place 1178 BCE before 1190 BCE should be a major foopah. If I were Choi, I would be extremely embarassed.

I haven't read The Odyssey since 7th grade literature, (a lifetime ago). Does Homer's timeline of Odysseus's wandering before returning to Ithaca agree with the ~12 year gap between the fall of Troy and this solar eclipse? This would seem to be the case if Magnasco and Baikouzis are trying to suggest that Homer's account is factual.

Nevermind, according to wikipedia, The Odyssey is a 10 year event. Magnasco and Baikouzis may be on to something. What kind of information did Homer have access to some 400 years after the event?

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by neufer » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:11 pm

bystander wrote:
neufer wrote:http://www.livescience.com/history/0806 ... lipse.html
Date Determined for Eclipse in Homer's Odyssey
By Charles Q. Choi, Special to LiveScience
posted: 23 June 2008 05:01 pm ET
<<...
More recently, astronomers Carl Schoch and Paul Neugebauer computed in the 1920s that a total solar eclipse occurred over the Ionian islands — of which Ithaca is one — about noon on April 16, 1178 B.C., and would have coincided roughly a decade before the most often cited estimate for the sack of Troy — about 1190 B.C.
...>>
Actually, the eclipse would have been after the sack. :oops:
It would have been even more embarrassing if Odysseus had returned home before the war began!
................................
Ancient Greek historians placed the Trojan War:
.
Eratosthenes to 1184 BCE,
Herodotus to 1250 BCE,
Douris to 1334 BCE.
------------------------------------
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/- ... -04-16.gif
................................
Solar System: Wed -1177 Apr 16 17:57
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar

The eclipse is clearly close to local noon so if one takes
into account the slowing of the earth due to tidal forces
(which this Solar System program clearly does not do)
it is more appropriate to use 90°W than 21°E :

Code: Select all

Solar System: Wed -1177 Apr 16 17:57
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar
.
.             Right                   Distance    From 38°N 90°W:
.           Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
Sun          0h 52m 22s    +5° 42.9'     1.015    57.710   -1.205 Up
Moon         0h 52m 26s    +6° 19.0'   58.0 ER    58.311   -1.260 Up
Mercury      0h 13m 24s    +0°  5.5'     1.269    51.177   14.603 Up
Venus       22h 12m 55s   -12° 35.3'     0.938    27.497   44.074 Up
Mars        23h 27m 47s    -4° 31.6'     2.313    43.410   28.720 Up
Jupiter      3h 44m 11s   +20°  4.4'     5.920    48.353  -77.108 Up
Saturn       4h  2m 31s   +20° 17.1'     9.662    44.930  -80.911 Up
Uranus      22h 41m 16s    -9° 16.4'    20.807    34.016   39.284 Up
Neptune     10h 44m  6s   +10° 12.6'    29.510   -33.552 -142.004 Set

Re: Ithaca Chasma (2008 June 24)

by bystander » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:58 pm

neufer wrote:http://www.livescience.com/history/0806 ... lipse.html
Date Determined for Eclipse in Homer's Odyssey
By Charles Q. Choi, Special to LiveScience
posted: 23 June 2008 05:01 pm ET
<<...
More recently, astronomers Carl Schoch and Paul Neugebauer computed in the 1920s that a total solar eclipse occurred over the Ionian islands — of which Ithaca is one — about noon on April 16, 1178 B.C., and would have coincided roughly a decade before the most often cited estimate for the sack of Troy — about 1190 B.C.
...>>
Actually, the eclipse would have been after the sack. :oops:

Ithaca Chasma (APOD 24 Jun 2008)

by neufer » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:44 pm

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080624.html
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.livescience.com/history/0806 ... lipse.html
Date Determined for Eclipse in Homer's Odyssey
By Charles Q. Choi, Special to LiveScience
posted: 23 June 2008 05:01 pm ET

<<In the epic "Odyssey," one of the cornerstones of Western
literature, the legendary Greek hero Odysseus returns to his queen
Penelope after enduring 10 years of sailing the wine dark sea. Now
scientists have pinned down his return to April 16, 1178 B.C., close
to noon local time, according to astronomical references in the epic
poem that seem to pinpoint the total eclipse of the sun on the day
that Odysseus supposedly returned on.

The "Odyssey" is a millennia-old epic said to be composed by the blind
poet Homer. In modern times, the "Odyssey" is typically seen as
fiction. Still, Homer's earlier epic, the "Iliad," was centered on the
war against Troy, and scientists first uncovered physical evidence of
Troy in the 19th century. This has long raised questions as to what
other historical facts the epics might refer to.

In the "Odyssey," after the decade-long Trojan War, King Odysseus of
the island Ithaca contends with monsters and witches after he draws
the wrath of the sea god Poseidon. After he finally returns home,
Odysseus slays more than 100 unruly suitors all of whom wish to marry
Penelope. The possible solar eclipse comes up in the 20th book of the
"Odyssey," as the suitors begin their final lunch. At this point, the
goddess of war Athena "confounds their minds," making the suitors
laugh uncontrollably and see their food spattered with blood. The seer
Theoclymenus then foresees the death of the suitors, ending by saying,
"The sun has been obliterated from the sky, and an unlucky darkness
invades the world."

The Greek historian Plutarch suggested the prophecy of Theoclymenus
referred to a solar eclipse.

More recently, astronomers Carl Schoch and Paul Neugebauer computed in
the 1920s that a total solar eclipse occurred over the Ionian islands
— of which Ithaca is one — about noon on April 16, 1178 B.C., and
would have coincided roughly a decade before the most often cited
estimate for the sack of Troy — about 1190 B.C.

Still, a great deal of skepticism remains over whether Theoclymenus
refers to this or any eclipse. To shed light on the issue, researchers
Marcelo Magnasco and Constantino Baikouzis at Rockefeller University
in New York decided to analyze other passages in the "Odyssey" for
astronomical references without assuming an eclipse.

The scientists first created a rough chronology of events depicted in
the "Odyssey." First, 29 days before the supposed eclipse and the
massacre of the suitors, three constellations are mentioned as
Odysseus sets out from the island of Ogygia, where he has spent seven
years as a captive of the beautiful nymph Calypso. Odysseus is told to
watch the Pleiades and late-setting Boötes and keep the Great Bear to
his left. Next, five days before the supposed eclipse, Odysseus
arrives in Ithaca as the Star of Dawn — that is, Venus — rises ahead
of the sun.

Finally, the night before the eclipse, there is a new moon.

Also, the messenger of the gods, Hermes, is sent west to Ogygia by the
king of the gods Zeus to release Odysseus and then immediately returns
back east roughly 34 days before the eclipse. The researchers
conjecture this trip refers to an apparent turning point of the motion
of the planet Mercury. (Mercury was the Roman name for Hermes.)

Backward planet

Mercury completes its orbit around the sun in just roughly 88 days,
compared with the year it takes Earth to do so. This means that
Mercury and Earth are somewhat like two cars moving along separate
lanes of a racetrack at different speeds. The effect of these motions
is that Mercury occasionally appears to go backward or retrograde in
the sky from our point of view, Magnasco explained. This happens for
roughly three weeks at a time, about three times a year.

The scientists then searched for potential dates that satisfied all
these astronomical references close to the fall of Troy, which has
over the centuries been estimated to have occurred between roughly
1250 to 1115 B.C. From these 135 years, they found just one date
satisfied all the references — April 16, 1178 B.C., the same date as
the proposed eclipse.

"That's just one day out of about 50,000 days," Magnasco told
LiveScience. "If our findings are correct, it would be pretty
spectacularly strange. How could Homer have known about this eclipse,
about planetary positions that happened some 100 years before him? If
this is all true, it would change the timetable of what we think they
knew about astronomy then." Homer, if he really existed, is said to
have composed the "Odyssey" sometime near the end of the ninth century
B.C.

Magnasco and Baikouzis detailed their findings online June 23 in the
journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
------------------------------------
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/- ... -04-16.gif

Code: Select all

Solar System: Wed -1177 Apr 16 17:57
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Solar
.
.              Right                   Distance    From 38°N 70°W:
.            Ascension    Declination      (AU)   Altitude Azimuth
Sun          0h 52m 22s    +5° 42.9'     1.015    53.235   33.430 Up
Moon         0h 52m 26s    +6° 19.0'   58.0 ER    53.784   33.846 Up
Mercury      0h 13m 24s    +0°  5.5'     1.269    43.596   42.176 Up
Venus       22h 12m 55s   -12° 35.3'     0.938    15.039   60.246 Up
Mars        23h 27m 47s    -4° 31.6'     2.313    33.282   50.752 Up
Jupiter      3h 44m 11s   +20°  4.4'     5.920    62.813  -55.403 Up
Saturn       4h  2m 31s   +20° 17.1'     9.662    59.876  -61.974 Up
Uranus      22h 41m 16s    -9° 16.4'    20.807    22.226   57.305 Up
Neptune     10h 44m  6s   +10° 12.6'    29.510   -21.994 -123.928 Set
April 16, 1178 BC - Homer's Odyssey Eclipse Mystery Solution May
Pinpoint The Fall Of Troy
Submitted by News Account on 23 June 2008 - 12:00pm. Astronomy

Homer's Odyssey, be it history or fiction, had one potentially true
part that has fascinated readers throughout the ages - namely whether
Odysseus returned home to experience a total solar eclipse.

Total eclipses, when the moon briefly but completely blocks the sun,
happen pretty rarely. In fact, they're so rare that if what Homer
describes is truly an eclipse, it could potentially help historians
date the fall of Troy, which was purported to occur around the time of
the events described in the Iliad and the Odyssey.

After arguing about the point for hundreds of years, historians,
astronomers and classicists finally agreed that there was no
corroborating evidence and tabled the discussion. Now, Marcelo O.
Magnasco, head of the Laboratory of Mathematical Physics at
Rockefeller, and Constantino Baikouzis of the Proyecto Observatorio at
the Observatorio Astronómico in La Plata, Argentina, believe they have
found some overlooked passages that, taken together, may shed new
light on the timing of an epic journey.

The researchers combed through the Odyssey to find specific
astronomical references that could be precisely identified as
occurring on specific days throughout Odysseus's journey. Then, they
aligned each of those dates with the date of Odysseus's return, the
same day he murders the suitors who had taken advantage of his long
absence to court his wife.

Magnasco and Baikouzis identified four celestial events. The day of
the slaughter is, as Homer writes more than once, also a new moon
(something that's also a prerequisite for a total eclipse). Six days
before the slaughter, Venus is visible and high in the sky. Twenty-
nine days before, two constellations -- the Pleiades and Boötes -- are
simultaneously visible at sunset.

And 33 days before, Homer may be suggesting that Mercury is high at
dawn and near the western end of its trajectory. (Homer actually
writes that Hermes -- known to the Romans as Mercury -- traveled far
west only to deliver a message and fly all the way back east again;
Magnasco and Baikouzis interpret this as a reference to the planet.)

Astronomically, these four phenomena recur at different intervals of
time, so together they never recur in exactly the same pattern.
Therefore Baikouzis and Magnasco looked to see whether there was any
date within 100 years of the fall of Troy that would fit the pattern
of the astronomical timeline.

There was only one: April 16, 1178 BCE, the same day that astronomers
had calculated the occurrence of a total solar eclipse.

"Not only is this corroborative evidence that this date might be
something important," Magnasco says, "but if we take it as a given
that the death of the suitors happened on this particular eclipse
date, then everything else described in The Odyssey happens exactly as
is described."

Magnasco acknowledges that their findings rely on a large assumption:
Although the association of planets with gods was a Babylonian
invention that dates back to around 1000 BCE, there's no evidence that
those ideas had reached Greece by the time Homer was writing, several
hundred years later. "This is a risky step in our analysis," he says.
"One may say that our interpretation of the phenomena is stretching
it, but when you go back to the text you have to wonder."

Ultimately, whether they're right or wrong, the researchers are
interested in reopening the debate. "Even though there are historical
arguments that say this is a ridiculous thing to think about, if we
can get a few people to read The Odyssey differently, to look at it
and ponder whether there was an actual date inscribed in it, we will
be happy," Magnasco says.

"Poor men, what terror is this that overwhelms you so? Night shrouds
your heads, your faces, down to your knees -- cries of mourning are
bursting into fire -- cheeks rivering tears -- the walls and the
handsome crossbeams dripping dank with blood! Ghosts, look, thronging
the entrance, thronging the court, go trooping down to the realm of
death and darkness! The sun is blotted out of the sky -- look there --
a lethal mist spreads all across the earth!" -- Homer (translation by
Robert Fagles)

Top