Cartwheel Galaxy - black holes in extra galactic environment

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) :ssmile: :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol2: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen:
View more smilies
BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON
Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Cartwheel Galaxy - black holes in extra galactic environment

by makc » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:49 am

astroton wrote:Mak is that signature written in Tamil / Sanskrit????
yes.
C Downunder wrote:found one listed as admins
I thought about people listed here. Names changed, however, since last time I seen them; like, Dan is not listed anywhere now. RJN is still mod/admin, he's actually APOD site mainteiner.

any way, there is another thread spawned on cartwheel galaxy APOD, I think it is cleaner, etc., so I will keep it open. This thread has a different question in it, though, so I will let it float around, too, unless someone wants it closed.

by C Downunder » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:13 am

astroton wrote:Mak is that signature written in Tamil / Sanskrit????
Sanskirt is what immediately came to my mind. What ever it is I see beauty in it, that is all I know. Perhaps we should not ask further.

Cheers,

C Downunder.

by C Downunder » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:44 am

BMAONE23 wrote:Back onto subject:
Can see the thinking.

C Downunder.

Re: Reply C Downunder

by C Downunder » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:41 am

makc wrote:
Duh. I'm posting in "regular member" mode.

Also, I do not consider this mod-ship a "gift from Gods", I am not paid for this, and I usually use it to enforce rule 5 and/or keeping this place clean according to my likes to "place cleanness". If somebody doesn't like the way I do it, they know where to go and what to do (sure I mean, "to forum admins" and "to complain" ;) )

Look up for users listed as admins (should be within first page), and then check their last posts.
OK, a bit of order does go a long way. Eases the day. Thanks for doing as you do.

Yep had a look, found one listed as admins. OK. Would not have found this without your direction, ta.

Using a very slow 33kb connection out in the Aussie scrub, so each look around takes awhile. Stars are bright though! And the company (myself) ocassionally intelligent.

Cheers,
C Downunder.

by astroton » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:37 am

Mak is that signature written in Tamil / Sanskrit????

by C Downunder » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:28 am

S. Bilderback wrote:C Downunder,

The Voynich Manuscript I believe is the source of Makc's signature, I bet he would love someone to translate it for him! :wink:
Smiles and laughter - and oh yes, I needed some of that this morning. Ta!

C Downunder

by BMAONE23 » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:05 pm

Back onto subject:

Galaxies and Black holes. I would think that if a galaxy has a black hole, and that black hole is rotating, (as most bodies do) then the rotation of the gravity source is what causes the galaxy to rotate. Therefore any and every galaxy that rotates should have a centrally located, x-ray emitting, super massive black hole.
Those galaxies that do not show signs of rotation, elliptical galaxies, either do not have central super massive black holes, or they have small mass black holes that rotate in different directions so that the gravimetric influences cancel each other out resulting in the elliptical look. It is also possible that elliptical galaxies do not have any central black holes and merely orbit around a gravitational center point.

I believe that this galaxy (the Cartwheel galaxy) shows signs of having had a super massive central black hole as it shows signs of rotation but that it was displaced as there is now no central x-ray source.

There are several external x-ray sources that would bear the signature of rogue super massive black holes, i.e. strong x-ray source but little to no visible light.

Perhaps a rogue super massive black hole passed beneath the galactic plane and dislocated the anchor of this galaxy.

by S. Bilderback » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:51 pm

C Downunder,

The Voynich Manuscript I believe is the source of Makc's signature, I bet he would love someone to translate it for him! :wink:

Re: Reply C Downunder

by makc » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:40 pm

C Downunder wrote:receiving a note from the moderator
Duh. I'm posting in "regular member" mode.

Also, I do not consider this mod-ship a "gift from Gods", I am not paid for this, and I usually use it to enforce rule 5 and/or keeping this place clean according to my likes to "place cleanness". If somebody doesn't like the way I do it, they know where to go and what to do (sure I mean, "to forum admins" and "to complain" ;) )
C Downunder wrote:do the professional astronomers play a part in this site, (are you one?) or is this more an interest group completely separate to them
Look up for users listed as admins (should be within first page), and then check their last posts.

Re: Reply C Downunder

by C Downunder » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:16 am

makc wrote:
C Downunder wrote:
makc wrote:there's 9 pages long thread on dark matter. Don't you think it fits there better.
makc, moderator... I believe I am asking a legitimite astrophysical question directly related to the release of this specific photo.
Yes, you do. That's why your thread isn't locked, right? But, it's just a common thing I am seing here as well as on other forums. Nobody never searches forums, same things are discussed over and over, and this finally makes forums boring... Forgive me this off-topic, it's just I don't like how it goes. Nothing personal to anyone, though. Perhaps I should think of handing moderatorship to someone else.
Hi makc

I run a few eGroups myself, and most people take zero time and zero effort to search a newsgroup before posting. I agree, it gets very annoying repeating the same over and over again. I like the way the rules for this newsgroup remain at the top. I actually read them before making my first post.

Makc my reply was not intended to cause any sense of criticism. Each newsgroup has its own unique sense and culture to it, and my effort to give a full reply was in part in respect of receiving a note from the moderator and in part by explaining myself make sure I was not missing something. I was a bit defensive I guess.

As a moderator you seem to be going a good job.

Can I ask a question - do the professional astronomers play a part in this site, (are you one?) or is this more an interest group completely separate to them. (I have worked with some astronomers in the past you see, and I was seeking to make comment into their mind circle so to speak. ) :)

May I ask the translation of the script you have at the bottom of your posts. The script looks beautiful. Is it hindu (apologies for my ignorance). If there is an accurate or effective English translation, and if it is something to be known to others, I would be interested to know what it says and perhaps what is means to you?

C Downunder

Re: Reply C Downunder

by makc » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:30 am

C Downunder wrote:
makc wrote:there's 9 pages long thread on dark matter. Don't you think it fits there better.
makc, moderator... I believe I am asking a legitimite astrophysical question directly related to the release of this specific photo.
Yes, you do. That's why your thread isn't locked, right? But, it's just a common thing I am seing here as well as on other forums. Nobody never searches forums, same things are discussed over and over, and this finally makes forums boring... Forgive me this off-topic, it's just I don't like how it goes. Nothing personal to anyone, though. Perhaps I should think of handing moderatorship to someone else.

Re: Reply C Downunder

by C Downunder » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:20 am

stl sportz fan wrote:Disclaimer:
I am not a scientist. I probably know only enough to be dangerous. But, I gotta say, what a cool site.

One thing I noticed right off the bat, which to a lot might seem fairly obvious, is that the center of the Cartwheel galaxy omits visable light and infrared but no x-rays. Does this mean that the center is now void of black holes? were these black holes moved from the center due to the collision or did they not exist in the center. Were these galaxies insured for collision? do you want me to go away now?


Just asking...
A level of knowledge that is enough to be dangerous is ..... well, half way to a level of knowledge that professionals use with us every day for good and evil.

Good observations.

Most galaxies appear to have a central (galactic central) supermassive black hole, with possibly a number of smaller ones - remnants of supernovea. The smaller ones both in the core and distributed possibly through other parts of the galaxy. However, x-rays from a center of galaxy from this distance are often obsured unless very active (ours is quiet as a puppy dog in dog dreamland at the moment).

I think it was noted that some of the x-rays in the ring are from intense star formation triggered by the collapsed gas from the collision. X-rays are generated from a number of processes in astrophysical situations.

And I like your last theory, we could be looking at the largest insurance scam yet discovered.

C Downunder.

Re: Reply C Downunder

by stl sportz fan » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:14 am

Disclaimer:
I am not a scientist. I probably know only enough to be dangerous. But, I gotta say, what a cool site.

C Downunder wrote: I was raising the question if there was a potential observational opportunity re determination of the matter present in extra-galactic environment.

Alternatively is this opportunity not present in view of the Cartwheel galaxy being within a galaxy cluster hence even though these objects have been ejected from the Cartwheel galaxy, they still are not truely in an extra- galactic environment where the issue of dark matter is being debated.

Normally black holes with active inflow of matter enabling observation from such a distance are within the core of galaxies. Due to this collision, some have been ejected, possibly supermassic galactic core black holes, and noting they are giving of x-rays would appear to be still pulling in a lot of matter from the surrounding environment. This would appear to me a quite unique situation, and observational opportunity.

Point is observation tests theory.

I remain interested if the suggestion of the observational opportunity I have raised is considered to have some merit astrophysically.

I believe I am asking a legitimite astrophysical question directly related to the release of this specific photo.

I hope the motivation for my post, to which I registered specifically to be able to make, is clearer now.

Thanks.

Peace.

Regards,

C Downunder.
One thing I noticed right off the bat, which to a lot might seem fairly obvious, is that the center of the Cartwheel galaxy omits visable light and infrared but no x-rays. Does this mean that the center is now void of black holes? were these black holes moved from the center due to the collision or did they not exist in the center. Were these galaxies insured for collision? do you want me to go away now?



Just asking...

Reply C Downunder

by C Downunder » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:57 am

makc wrote:there's 9 pages long thread on dark matter. Don't you think it fits there better.
makc, moderator.

Thanks. Had a look at the post on dark matter you refer a little further down. Actually I did miss it. I did not look that far as I thought with the Cartwheel picture only just released that the first few posts would be enough.

May I respectfully differ however to your post.

This other post appears to me to be a general discussion on dark matter by those with a general interest and fascination with this topic. My post is specific to the APOD latest picture inquiring as to a possible observational opportunity coming from an astrophysical point of view.


Perhaps, I was not clear enough in the intention of my post.

I was raising the question if there was a potential observational opportunity re determination of the matter present in extra-galactic environment.

Alternatively is this opportunity not present in view of the Cartwheel galaxy being within a galaxy cluster hence even though these objects have been ejected from the Cartwheel galaxy, they still are not truely in an extra- galactic environment where the issue of dark matter is being debated.

Normally black holes with active inflow of matter enabling observation from such a distance are within the core of galaxies. Due to this collision, some have been ejected, possibly supermassic galactic core black holes, and noting they are giving of x-rays would appear to be still pulling in a lot of matter from the surrounding environment. This would appear to me a quite unique situation, and observational opportunity.

Point is observation tests theory.

I remain interested if the suggestion of the observational opportunity I have raised is considered to have some merit astrophysically.

I believe I am asking a legitimite astrophysical question directly related to the release of this specific photo.

I hope the motivation for my post, to which I registered specifically to be able to make, is clearer now.

Thanks.

Peace.

Regards,

C Downunder.

by makc » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:03 pm

there's 9 pages long thread on dark matter. Don't you think it fits there better.

Cartwheel Galaxy - black holes in extra galactic environment

by C Downunder » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:31 pm

As suggested in explanation, x-ray sources are likely blackholes, some post supernova, some ejected in consequence of galaxy collission.

Noting some x-ray sources appear to have been ejected into extra-galactic space, and given x-ray emissions are a product of surrounding material being sucked into the accretion disk, is there any evidence of dark matter etc, ie signs of different matter in spectra of these x-ray sources to those within the galactic environment.

Thought this an interesting question to ask.

Regards

C Downunder.

Top