APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by johnnydeep » Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:24 pm

VictorBorun wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:41 am
johnnydeep wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?
if you happen to register a ɣ particle once in a minute, or once in 190 pulses, you need patience to accumulate those registrations.

How many depends on the precision of your registering time while radio-quiet pulsar is aiming the jet on you.
If your time error is zero, then just 3 registrations give you 2 time intervals, say of k periods and of m periods, and if you are in luck and k and m are coprime like 256 and 375, then you already know that the first of your intervals is 256 periods long, or 512, or 768, etc.

The jet may be not so narrow so the time you register a ɣ particle may leave some error for the time the pulsar was aiming at you. That's why just 3 ɣ particles will not do.

But enjoying a particle a minute you can accumulate many.
Thanks. I don't totally follow your math, but I guess I can see that with a high enough accuracy of the measurements, along with enough measurements, even if they happen infrequently, you can deduce the still precise yet much smaller fundamental pulse interval underlying it.

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by VictorBorun » Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:41 am

johnnydeep wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?
if you happen to register a ɣ particle once in a minute, or once in 190 pulses, you need patience to accumulate those registrations.

How many depends on the precision of your registering time while radio-quiet pulsar is aiming the jet on you.
If your time error is zero, then just 3 registrations give you 2 time intervals, say of k periods and of m periods, and if you are in luck and k and m are coprime like 256 and 375, then you already know that the first of your intervals is 256 periods long, or 512, or 768, etc.

The jet may be not so narrow so the time you register a ɣ particle may leave some error for the time the pulsar was aiming at you. That's why just 3 ɣ particles will not do.

But enjoying a particle a minute you can accumulate many.

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by AVAO » Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:36 am

Ann wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:11 am
[...]
I can't find the PLN in the APOD, however. Where in the APOD is it?
[...]

Ann
ThanX Ann 4 your exciting comments!

Jac
Attachments
CTA1_15_75_Lelu2048 Kopie.jpg

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Ann » Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:11 am

AVAO wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:13 pm
APOD Robot wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am Image Supernova Remnant CTA 1

Explanation: There is a quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was discovered as a source of emission at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

Nice PLN inside.
...it almost looks like SNR and PLN are interacting...

https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/
biggg: https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/#rB
Caldwell 2 (NGC 40) & CTA 1 SNR
Copyrights: Mathieu Guinot

Fascinating, Jac! I guess that the PLN and the SNR could be interacting, if they are close enough to be "touching".


I can't find the PLN in the APOD, however. Where in the APOD is it?

As for the APOD, I keep seeing a creature in it. The very elongated blue feature at upper left would be its head, and the shape to its lower right would be its body.

So the question is not, What do you see in the clouds, Charlie Brown?


The real question should be, What do you see in CTA supernova remnant, Charlie Brown? A ducky or a horsie?

CTA1_15_75_Lelu1024[1].jpg

I would go for a horsie. But I don't know. Maybe possibly a dragon?

Ann

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Keyman » Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:30 pm

tmbruner@midco.net wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:30 pm Interesting illusion if you look at with your red/blue glasses.
I did reach into my drawer to pull them out when I first saw this.

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by AVAO » Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:13 pm

APOD Robot wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am Image Supernova Remnant CTA 1

Explanation: There is a quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was discovered as a source of emission at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

Nice PLN inside.
...it almost looks like SNR and PLN are interacting...

https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/
biggg: https://www.astrobin.com/9fcwt7/#rB
Caldwell 2 (NGC 40) & CTA 1 SNR
Copyrights: Mathieu Guinot

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by johnnydeep » Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:48 pm

I find it interesting that in the last link is this bit:

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facili ... y%20minute
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope scans the entire sky every three hours and detects photons with energies ranging from 20 million to more than 300 billion times the energy of visible light. The instrument sees about one gamma ray every minute from CTA 1, enough for scientists to piece together the neutron star’s pulsing behavior, its rotation period, and the rate at which it is slowing down.
How is that possible? It sees only one gamma ray/photon every 60 seconds, yet is still able to deduce a very accurate 316.86 millisecond rotation rate?

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Ann » Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:20 pm

AVAO wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:16 pm
Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm

Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)

Well, it depends a bit on your age and your telescope and primarily on how much patience and imagination you have ,-)
SN 1987A in the LMC is in our cosmic "neighborhood".

Credits Video NASA, ESA, Robert P. Kirshner (CfA, Moore Foundation), Peter Challis (CfA)

original data: NASA/ESA (HST) jac berne (flickr)
original data: NASA/ESA/CSA WEBBLE (HST/JWST) jac berne (flickr)
Great time lapse, Jac! :D

Ann

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Ann » Fri Aug 23, 2024 6:17 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_

Great picture, Chris! :D

Ann

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by AVAO » Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:16 pm

Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)

Well, it depends a bit on your age and your telescope and primarily on how much patience and imagination you have ,-)
SN 1987A in the LMC is in our cosmic "neighborhood".

Credits Video NASA, ESA, Robert P. Kirshner (CfA, Moore Foundation), Peter Challis (CfA)

original data: NASA/ESA (HST) jac berne (flickr)
original data: NASA/ESA/CSA WEBBLE (HST/JWST) jac berne (flickr)

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Christian G. » Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:28 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm
Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg
Yes, I meant seeing one nearby with our own eyes. Must see this once in my lifetime!
(I remember your two images "evolution of a supernova" in M101, that was fascinating)

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:47 pm

Christian G. wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?
Not sure what you mean. We see supernovas all the time. Do you mean nearby? The last one we saw in our own galaxy was in 1604. We're due.
_
sn2023ixf_20230523.jpg

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by Christian G. » Fri Aug 23, 2024 2:41 pm

Remnants, always remnants… When do we get to see an actual supernova?

Re: APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by tmbruner@midco.net » Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:30 pm

Interesting illusion if you look at with your red/blue glasses.

APOD: Supernova Remnant CTA 1 (2024 Aug 23)

by APOD Robot » Fri Aug 23, 2024 4:06 am

Image Supernova Remnant CTA 1

Explanation: There is a quiet pulsar at the heart of CTA 1. The supernova remnant was discovered as a source of emission at radio wavelengths by astronomers in 1960 and since identified as the result of the death explosion of a massive star. But no radio pulses were detected from the expected pulsar, the rotating neutron star remnant of the massive star's collapsed core. Seen about 10,000 years after the initial supernova explosion, the interstellar debris cloud is faint at optical wavelengths. CTA 1's visible wavelength emission from still expanding shock fronts is revealed in this deep telescopic image, a frame that spans about 2 degrees across a starfield in the northern constellation of Cepheus. While no pulsar has since been found at radio wavelengths, in 2008 the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope detected pulsed emission from CTA 1, identifying the supernova remnant's rotating neutron star. The source has been recognized as the first in a growing class of pulsars that are quiet at radio wavelengths but pulse in high-energy gamma-rays.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

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