Starship Asterisk*

Daveman1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 1:36 pm Am I missing something? Shouldn't "It is not a coincidence that a full moon rises just when the Sun sets" be the other way around? We are watching the moon set behind people who are watching the sun rise, aren't we?

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:27 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:18 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

I don't think there is any smoke.

I do see the flashes of light, all from the same area - which also happens to have a bunch of people. Not sure what it is. Here's a flash near the end:


fire on the mountain.png

Since those people are watching the Sun come up behind the camera, it's hardly surprising that we'd see bright reflections off their cameras or other things they have with them.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:18 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Confused wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:43 pm

Except whatever it is that I see, it is only near the land and only rising from the land, in the direction opposing the perceived direction of movement of the Moon. Twice in the video I see flashes of light, one at the very end of the video. If it is real smoke it is strange we do not see it when the Moon is not behind it.

I don't think there is any smoke.

I do see the flashes of light, all from the same area - which also happens to have a bunch of people. Not sure what it is. Here's a flash near the end:


fire on the mountain.png

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Confused wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

Except whatever it is that I see, it is only near the land and only rising from the land, in the direction opposing the perceived direction of movement of the Moon. Twice in the video I see flashes of light, one at the very end of the video. If it is real smoke it is strange we do not see it when the Moon is not behind it.

I don't think there is any smoke.

Confused wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

Except whatever it is that I see, it is only near the land and only rising from the land, in the direction opposing the perceived direction of movement of the Moon. Twice in the video I see flashes of light, one at the very end of the video. If it is real smoke it is strange we do not see it when the Moon is not behind it.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:14 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:08 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:03 pm
True... but they're at 12,000 feet or so, so most of the continuing path is largely above the strongest atmospheric effects, and mainly just blurs out lunar features a little. Probably most of the visible, convective motion we're seeing is quite close to the camera.

Thanks. And I presume any atmospheric thermal effects would also be minimal in the more typical case of a telescope pointed at the moon much more vertically.

Seeing issues tend to involve ground effects in the few tens of meters close to the ground, and the effects of high altitude winds at thousands of meters. The latter is what makes stars twinkle and creates local distortion on the Moon here, but it just looks like random wiggling. The ground effects result from mostly rising air, so we see a different kind of structure if we're looking horizontally through it.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:08 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:03 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm

Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

True... but they're at 12,000 feet or so, so most of the continuing path is largely above the strongest atmospheric effects, and mainly just blurs out lunar features a little. Probably most of the visible, convective motion we're seeing is quite close to the camera.

Thanks. And I presume any atmospheric thermal effects would also be minimal in the more typical case of a telescope pointed at the moon much more vertically.

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:03 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:01 pm

True!

Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

True... but they're at 12,000 feet or so, so most of the continuing path is largely above the strongest atmospheric effects, and mainly just blurs out lunar features a little. Probably most of the visible, convective motion we're seeing is quite close to the camera.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:57 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:01 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:57 pm

We're looking horizontally through 16 km of air! I'm amazed we don't see more thermal effects.

True!

Is occurred to me that the distance from the camera to the people on the volcano is 16 km, but there's also a few more km of atmosphere that the light from the moon would have to go through before reaching those people!

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:01 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:57 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:27 pm

Almost certainly no fire, but it conceivably might have been smoke rising from the volcano, assuming it's even active. But in this case I do think the "smoke" is just an optical effect of some kind.

We're looking horizontally through 16 km of air! I'm amazed we don't see more thermal effects.

True!

Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:57 pm

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:27 pm

Confused wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:22 pm Is there a fire on the peak? There appears to be smoke rising from it. I do not however see the smoke when the Moon is not behind the peak, therefore it is probably an illusion.

Almost certainly no fire, but it conceivably might have been smoke rising from the volcano, assuming it's even active. But in this case I do think the "smoke" is just an optical effect of some kind.

We're looking horizontally through 16 km of air! I'm amazed we don't see more thermal effects.

johnnydeep wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:27 pm

Confused wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:22 pm Is there a fire on the peak? There appears to be smoke rising from it. I do not however see the smoke when the Moon is not behind the peak, therefore it is probably an illusion.

Almost certainly no fire, but it conceivably might have been smoke rising from the volcano, assuming it's even active. But in this case I do think the "smoke" is just an optical effect of some kind.

Confused wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:22 pm Is there a fire on the peak? There appears to be smoke rising from it. I do not however see the smoke when the Moon is not behind the peak, therefore it is probably an illusion.