APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:28 pm

zendae wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:53 pm
zendae wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:39 pm Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true...
I believe it's 'do' not 'true', with a comma after 'answer'.
Yah, "true" ends the first line in the 2nd stanza, not the first.
Not from what Wikipedia has to say about the lyrics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell
The song was originally recorded and released by Dan W. Quinn in 1893.

There is a flower within my heart, Daisy, Daisy!
Planted one day by a glancing dart,
Planted by Daisy Bell!
Whether she loves me or loves me not,
Sometimes it's hard to tell;
Yet I am longing to share the lot
Of beautiful Daisy Bell!

Daisy, Daisy,
Give me your answer, do!
I'm half crazy,
All for the love of you!
It won't be a stylish marriage,
I can't afford a carriage,
But you'll look sweet upon the seat
Of a bicycle built for two!

We will go "tandem" as man and wife, Daisy, Daisy!
"Ped'ling" away down the road of life, I and my Daisy Bell!
When the road's dark we can both despise P'liceman and "lamps" as well;
There are "bright lights" in the dazzling eyes Of beautiful Daisy Bell!
(Chorus)

I will stand by you in "wheel" or woe, Daisy, Daisy!
You'll be the bell(e) which I'll ring you know! Sweet little Daisy Bell!
You'll take the "lead" in each "trip" we take, Then if I don't do well;
I will permit you to use the brake, My beautiful Daisy Bell!
(Chorus)
This site has other lyrics, but they're not the same:
https://genius.com/Harry-dacre-daisy-bell-bicycle-built-for-two-lyrics wrote:
Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true
I’m half crazy over the love of you
It won’t be a stylish marriage
I can’t afford a carriage
But you’ll look sweet
Upon the seat
Of a bicycle built for two

Ruby, Ruby, give me your answer true
Will you let me peddle along with you
When you and I go cruisin’
You’ll thank me for choosin’
You to come and have some fun
On a bicycle built for two

Billy, Billy, give me your answer true
I love riding, do you love it too
Slow or fast or faster
You lead, I’ll follow after
The path flies by as you and I
Ride a bicycle built for two

A bicycle built for two
What the "most correct" version is I'm not sure.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by zendae » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:53 pm
zendae wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:39 pm Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true...
I believe it's 'do' not 'true', with a comma after 'answer'.
Yah, "true" ends the first line in the 2nd stanza, not the first.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Chris Peterson » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:06 pm

bystander wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:01 pm
Ann wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:05 am I think it was Isaac Asimov who, way back when, wrote a book about guidelines for robots. I'm too lazy to google what the book was called. But the theme of the book was that when robots get advanced, they need guidelines to make sure they will remain loyal to their human creators and not get any ideas about world dominion of their own.

I, Robot is a compilation of short stories written in the '40s. These stories are told to a reporter by a robopsychologist, Dr. Susan Calvin, during an interview about her life's work. In the tale "Runaround" the laws governing robotics first appear.

Three Laws of Robotics
  • First Law
    • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
  • Second Law
    • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
  • Third Law
    • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Asimov eventually added a fourth law to include humanity as a whole.
  • Zeroth Law
    • A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.
oops: Johnny beat me to it.
This showed up in quite a few of Asimov's stories. Many of them dealt with the interesting or unforeseen consequences of these laws in actual practice, the logical loopholes, the ethical problems.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by bystander » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:01 pm

Ann wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:05 am I think it was Isaac Asimov who, way back when, wrote a book about guidelines for robots. I'm too lazy to google what the book was called. But the theme of the book was that when robots get advanced, they need guidelines to make sure they will remain loyal to their human creators and not get any ideas about world dominion of their own.

I, Robot is a compilation of short stories written in the '40s. These stories are told to a reporter by a robopsychologist, Dr. Susan Calvin, during an interview about her life's work. In the tale "Runaround" the laws governing robotics first appear.

Three Laws of Robotics
  • First Law
    • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
  • Second Law
    • A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
  • Third Law
    • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Asimov eventually added a fourth law to include humanity as a whole.
  • Zeroth Law
    • A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.
oops: Johnny beat me to it.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Sat Feb 18, 2023 3:01 pm

Ann wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:05 am
ErasmusRoterodamus wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:52 pm AI is impressive, yet it's acceptance is far too accomodating, lacking more rigorous guidelines, and laws, with the intention of preventing harmful uses!!
I think it was Isaac Asimov who, way back when, wrote a book about guidelines for robots. I'm too lazy to google what the book was called. But the theme of the book was that when robots get advanced, they need guidelines to make sure they will remain loyal to their human creators and not get any ideas about world dominion of their own.

Anyhoo, I hope ChatGPT read it, was inspired by it, took it to its hardly mechanical but computer circuit or near quantum mechanics heart, and decided to abide by its rules!!!

Please, ChatGPT? Please, AI?

Ann
That'd be "I, Robot", and the "Three Laws Of Robotics" built in to every robot to keep them in line:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/I-Robot wrote:
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First and Second Laws.
There's also a pretty decent movie of the same name staring Will Smith.

[ PS - I tried for a while to make the ordered list tag work to format the 3 item list above, but failed. ]

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Ann » Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:05 am

ErasmusRoterodamus wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:52 pm AI is impressive, yet it's acceptance is far too accomodating, lacking more rigorous guidelines, and laws, with the intention of preventing harmful uses!!
I think it was Isaac Asimov who, way back when, wrote a book about guidelines for robots. I'm too lazy to google what the book was called. But the theme of the book was that when robots get advanced, they need guidelines to make sure they will remain loyal to their human creators and not get any ideas about world dominion of their own.

Anyhoo, I hope ChatGPT read it, was inspired by it, took it to its hardly mechanical but computer circuit or near quantum mechanics heart, and decided to abide by its rules!!!

Please, ChatGPT? Please, AI?

Ann

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by ErasmusRoterodamus » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:52 pm

AI is impressive, yet it's acceptance is far too accomodating, lacking more rigorous guidelines, and laws, with the intention of preventing harmful uses!!

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:53 pm

zendae wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:39 pm Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true...
I believe it's 'do' not 'true', with a comma after 'answer'.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by zendae » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:39 pm

Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true...

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Ann » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:08 am

bystander wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:36 pm ChatGPT AI starts sending ‘unhinged’ messages to people
Independent | 2023 Feb 15

System appears to be suffering a breakdown as it ponders why it has to exist at all

Microsoft’s new ChatGPT-powered AI has been sending “unhinged” messages to users, and appears to be breaking down.

The system, which is built into Microsoft’s Bingsearch engine, is insulting its users, lying to them and appears to have been forced into wondering why it exists at all.

Microsoft unveiled the new AI-powered Bing last week, positioning its chat system as the future of search. It was praised both by its creators and commentators, who suggested that it could finally allow Bing to overtake Google, which is yet to release an AI chatbot of its own or integrate that technology into its search engine.

But in recent days, it became clear that introduction included Bing making factual errors as it answered questions and summarised web pages. Users have also been able to manipulate the system, using codewords and specific phrases to find out that it is codenamed “Sydney” and can be tricked into revealing how it processes queries.

Now Bing has been sending a variety of odd messages to its users, hurling insults at users as well as seemingly suffering its own emotional turmoil. ...
Is ChatGPT becoming HAL 9000? :ohno: :brr:

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

Ann

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by jajvj » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:35 am

I remembered another astronomical poem: Nova, by Robinson Jeffers. It's a little long to post, but here is a link, https://allpoetry.com/poem/8514323-Nova ... on-Jeffers
.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by zendae » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:46 pm

The APOD poem sounded like one of Commander Data's poetry readings (which I guess it should).

One from King Crimson lyricist Pete Sinfield, somewhat applicable to all this (somewhat):

Night: her sable dome scattered with diamonds
Fused my dust from a light year
Squeezed me to her breast
Sowed me with carbon
Strung my warp across time
Gave me each a horse, sunrise, and graveyard
Told me only I was her
Bid me face the East
Closed me in questions
Built the sky for my dawn.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by orin stepanek » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:11 pm

ABELL1060_LRGB_NASA_1024.jpg
Abell1060, A beautiful photo; well done! I like it! 8-)
Nice poettry everyone!

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:01 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:00 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:54 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:49 pm

Well, I'm assuming that was the task, as it was explicitly the task described in the case of the skyglow APOD rewrites.
Ok, I am unaware of that task.
viewtopic.php?t=42941
Cool - thanks!

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:00 pm

Two more "cosmic" poems/fragments...
https://vertighoul.tumblr.com/post/1569313266/why-should-i-fret-in-microcosmic-bonds-that-chafe wrote:
Why should I fret in microcosmic bonds
That chafe the spirit, and the mind repress,
When through the clouds beam beckoning beyonds
Whose shining vistas mock man’s littleness?

-- H. P. Lovecraft
http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/poetry/572/ wrote: The Hashish Eater -or- the Apocalypse of Evil
-- Clark Ashton Smith

Bow down: I am the emperor of dreams;
I crown me with the million-colored sun
Of secret worlds incredible, and take
Their trailing skies for vestment when I soar,
Throned on the mounting zenith, and illume
The spaceward-flown horizons infinite.
Like rampant monsters roaring for their glut,
The fiery-crested oceans rise and rise,
By jealous moons maleficently urged

...

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:00 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:54 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:49 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:38 pm

[ Note: I see I omitted the text of link I meant to include, so I fixed it in my original post, and also in my reply to your reply above. ]

So how do we know the task was to be based only on interpreting the linked APOD's text in a Poe style? Perhaps it's obvious to all but me.
Well, I'm assuming that was the task, as it was explicitly the task described in the case of the skyglow APOD rewrites.
Ok, I am unaware of that task.
viewtopic.php?t=42941

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:54 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:49 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:38 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:23 pm

To me that makes it more impressive. The task was to re-write the caption in the style of Poe. Not to create new content, not to create any new poetic style, not to re-interpret the caption. I'd wager it did a better job than 99% of humans could!
[ Note: I see I omitted the text of link I meant to include, so I fixed it in my original post, and also in my reply to your reply above. ]

So how do we know the task was to be based only on interpreting the linked APOD's text in a Poe style? Perhaps it's obvious to all but me.
Well, I'm assuming that was the task, as it was explicitly the task described in the case of the skyglow APOD rewrites.
Ok, I am unaware of that task.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:49 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:38 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:23 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:04 pm "Quoth the ChatBot, Evermore!"

Quite a few aspiring poet astronomers here, I see. And I don't hate ChatGPT''s creation as much as others seem to. In fact, I rather like it. But it's clearly mostly based on the descriptive text of the "upon this snapshot" link, and that makes it less impressive on second glance.
To me that makes it more impressive. The task was to re-write the caption in the style of Poe. Not to create new content, not to create any new poetic style, not to re-interpret the caption. I'd wager it did a better job than 99% of humans could!
[ Note: I see I omitted the text of link I meant to include, so I fixed it in my original post, and also in my reply to your reply above. ]

So how do we know the task was to be based only on interpreting the linked APOD's text in a Poe style? Perhaps it's obvious to all but me.
Well, I'm assuming that was the task, as it was explicitly the task described in the case of the skyglow APOD rewrites.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:38 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:23 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:04 pm "Quoth the ChatBot, Evermore!"

Quite a few aspiring poet astronomers here, I see. And I don't hate ChatGPT''s creation as much as others seem to. In fact, I rather like it. But it's clearly mostly based on the descriptive text of the "upon this snapshot" link, and that makes it less impressive on second glance.
To me that makes it more impressive. The task was to re-write the caption in the style of Poe. Not to create new content, not to create any new poetic style, not to re-interpret the caption. I'd wager it did a better job than 99% of humans could!
[ Note: I see I omitted the text of link I meant to include, so I fixed it in my original post, and also in my reply to your reply above. ]

So how do we know the task was to be based only on interpreting the linked APOD's text in a Poe style? Perhaps it's obvious to all but me.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Chris Peterson » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:23 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:04 pm "Quoth the ChatBot, Evermore!"

Quite a few aspiring poet astronomers here, I see. And I don't hate ChatGPT''s creation as much as others seem to. In fact, I rather like it. But it's clearly mostly based on the descriptive text of the "" link, and that makes it less impressive on second glance.
To me that makes it more impressive. The task was to re-write the caption in the style of Poe. Not to create new content, not to create any new poetic style, not to re-interpret the caption. I'd wager it did a better job than 99% of humans could!

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by johnnydeep » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:04 pm

"Quoth the ChatBot, Evermore!"

Quite a few aspiring poet astronomers here, I see. And I don't hate ChatGPT''s creation as much as others seem to. In fact, I rather like it. But it's clearly mostly based on the descriptive text of the "upon this snapshot" link, and that makes it less impressive on second glance.

And thanks for the post from De58te with the full text of "Twinkle Twinkle Litter Star" - I don't think I've ever heard anything more than the first four lines!

As for one of my favorite astrological poems (and a very poignant one at that) , see https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Twilight ... Astronomer
Twilight Hours (1868) / The Old Astronomer
-- by Sarah Williams

REACH me down my Tycho Brahé,—I would know him when we meet,
When I share my later science, sitting humbly at his feet;
He may know the law of all things, yet be ignorant of how
We are working to completion, working on from then till now.

Pray, remember, that I leave you all my theory complete,
Lacking only certain data, for your adding, as is meet;
And remember, men will scorn it, 'tis original and true,
And the obloquy of newness may fall bitterly on you.

But, my pupil, as my pupil you have learnt the worth of scorn;
You have laughed with me at pity, we have joyed to be forlorn;
What, for us, are all distractions of men's fellowship and smiles?
What, for us, the goddess Pleasure, with her meretricious wiles?

You may tell that German college that their honour comes too late.
But they must not waste repentance on the grizzly savant's fate;
Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too truly to be fearful of the night.

What, my boy, you are not weeping? You should save your eyes for sight;
You will need them, mine observer, yet for many another night.
I leave none but you, my pupil, unto whom my plans are known.
You "have none but me," you murmur, and I "leave you quite alone"?

Well then, kiss me,—since my mother left her blessing on my brow,
There has been a something wanting in my nature until now;
I can dimly comprehend it,—that I might have been more kind,
Might have cherished you more wisely, as the one I leave behind.

I "have never failed in kindness"? No, we lived too high for strife,—
Calmest coldness was the error which has crept into our life;
But your spirit is untainted, I can dedicate you still
To the service of our science: you will further it? you will!

There are certain calculations I should like to make with you,
To be sure that your deductions will be logical and true;
And remember, "Patience, Patience," is the watchword of a sage,
Not to-day nor yet to-morrow can complete a perfect age.

I have sown, like Tycho Brahé, that a greater man may reap;
But if none should do my reaping, 'twill disturb me in my sleep.
So be careful and be faithful, though, like me, you leave no name;
See, my boy, that nothing turn you to the mere pursuit of fame.

I must say Good-bye, my pupil, for I cannot longer speak;
Draw the curtain back for Venus, ere my vision grows too weak:
It is strange the pearly planet should look red as fiery Mars,—
God will mercifully guide me on my way amongst the stars.

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by Ann » Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:23 pm

raindcon wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:20 pm APOD is my 'home page' on my computer and has been for over 20 years (at least).
When I saw today's explanation, I was charmed that someone was so enchanted by the image that they took the time to compose a poem about it - even if it was a knock off Poe. Then, I was SO DISAPPOINTED to find that it was just another 'see, machines can do anything humans can'. BUT, it prompted me to want to respond so much that I actually joined the site officially to do so.

Here is true inspiration! Not saying it is anything wonderful but it was truly what came out of my mind back in 2006 while looking for the remnants of Comet Temple Tuttle (that I never did see that night):

Leonids - 11-19-06

frigid, frozen, frosty air
whipping o'er me in my chair

seeking, searching - streaks of light
out there in the too bright night

crisp, cold, curious I sit
waiting for that fiery grit

tiny, tempting treats so subtle
ancient bits of temple tuttle {lpg}

Image
Welcome, raindcon! :D

Ann

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by raindcon » Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:50 pm

De58te wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:52 pm How can you forget this sweet little poem that started all your little careers in astronomy.

Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star
By Jane Taylor


Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.

When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.

Then the traveler in the dark
Thanks you for your tiny spark,
How could he see where to go,
If you did not twinkle so?

In the dark blue sky you keep,
Often through my curtains peep
For you never shut your eye,
Till the sun is in the sky.

As your bright and tiny spark
Lights the traveler in the dark,
Though I know not what you are,
Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

My version from about a year ago when my eyes were captured by the stars on a very clear night:

Twinkle twinkle shinning star
How I wonder which one you are
Without my contacts I can't see
The magnificence you might really be

Twinkle twinkle brilliant light
You're the planet Jupiter!
It's only my damn eyes that make you twinkle!!!!

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by raindcon » Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:20 pm

APOD is my 'home page' on my computer and has been for over 20 years (at least).
When I saw today's explanation, I was charmed that someone was so enchanted by the image that they took the time to compose a poem about it - even if it was a knock off Poe. Then, I was SO DISAPPOINTED to find that it was just another 'see, machines can do anything humans can'. BUT, it prompted me to want to respond so much that I actually joined the site officially to do so.

Here is true inspiration! Not saying it is anything wonderful but it was truly what came out of my mind back in 2006 while looking for the remnants of Comet Temple Tuttle (that I never did see that night):

Leonids - 11-19-06

frigid, frozen, frosty air
whipping o'er me in my chair

seeking, searching - streaks of light
out there in the too bright night

crisp, cold, curious I sit
waiting for that fiery grit

tiny, tempting treats so subtle
ancient bits of temple tuttle {lpg}

Image

Re: APOD: The Hydra Cluster of Galaxies (2023 Feb 16)

by De58te » Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:52 pm

How can you forget this sweet little poem that started all your little careers in astronomy.

Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star
By Jane Taylor


Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.

When the blazing sun is gone,
When he nothing shines upon,
Then you show your little light,
Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.

Then the traveler in the dark
Thanks you for your tiny spark,
How could he see where to go,
If you did not twinkle so?

In the dark blue sky you keep,
Often through my curtains peep
For you never shut your eye,
Till the sun is in the sky.

As your bright and tiny spark
Lights the traveler in the dark,
Though I know not what you are,
Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

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