by neufer » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:59 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:35 pm
King_nothing wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:56 pm
"The unexpected wobble rate may indicate that an ever-present sea of virtual particles includes types not currently known".
Dark matter?
I think that the existence of dark matter has long pointed to an incompleteness in the Standard Model. So this finding doesn't surprise me. While some sensational news stories have suggested this discovery will lead to a "whole new physics", by guess is that the Standard Model remains fundamentally accurate, and what we will see is adjustments, not replacements. That has been the story of physics for many years now.
I think that the "anomalous" precession of the perihelion of Mercury has long pointed to an incompleteness in the Newtonian theory of gravity.
While some sensational news stories have suggested this "anomaly" will lead to a "whole new physics", my guess is that the Newtonian theory of gravity remains fundamentally accurate, and what we will see is adjustments, not replacements. That has been the story of physics for many years now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Perihelion_precession_of_Mercury wrote:
- Perihelion precession of Mercury
<<Under Newtonian physics, a two-body system consisting of a lone object orbiting a spherical mass would trace out an ellipse with the center of mass of the system at a focus. The point of closest approach, called the periapsis (or, because the central body in the Solar System is the Sun, perihelion), is fixed. A number of effects in the Solar System cause the perihelia of planets to precess (rotate) around the Sun. The principal cause is the presence of other planets which perturb one another's orbit. Another (much less significant) effect is solar oblateness.
Mercury deviates from the precession predicted from these Newtonian effects. This anomalous rate of precession of the perihelion of Mercury's orbit was first recognized in 1859 as a problem in celestial mechanics, by Urbain Le Verrier. His reanalysis of available timed observations of transits of Mercury over the Sun's disk from 1697 to 1848 showed that the actual rate of the precession disagreed from that predicted from Newton's theory by 38″ (arcseconds) per tropical century (later re-estimated at 43″ by Simon Newcomb in 1882). A number of ad hoc and ultimately unsuccessful solutions were proposed, but they tended to introduce more problems.
In general relativity, this remaining precession, or change of orientation of the orbital ellipse within its orbital plane, is explained by gravitation being mediated by the curvature of spacetime. Einstein showed that general relativity agrees closely with the observed amount of perihelion shift. This was a powerful factor motivating the adoption of general relativity.
Although earlier measurements of planetary orbits were made using conventional telescopes, more accurate measurements are now made with radar. The total observed precession of Mercury is 574.10″±0.65 per century relative to the inertial ICRF. This precession can be attributed to the following causes:
Code: Select all
Sources of the precession of perihelion for Mercury
Amount (arcsec/Julian century) Cause
----------------------------------------------------------------------
532.3035 Gravitational tugs of other solar bodies
042.9799 Gravitoelectric effects (Schwarzschild-like), a General Relativity effect
000.0286 Oblateness of the Sun (quadrupole moment)
−000.0020 Lense–Thirring precession
575.31 Total predicted
574.10±0.65 Observed
[quote="Chris Peterson" post_id=312467 time=1618324528 user_id=117706]
[quote=King_nothing post_id=312458 time=1618318586]
"The unexpected wobble rate may indicate that an ever-present sea of virtual particles includes types not currently known".
[size=150]Dark matter? [/size][/quote]
I think that the existence of dark matter has long pointed to an incompleteness in the Standard Model. So this finding doesn't surprise me. While some sensational news stories have suggested this discovery will lead to a "whole new physics", by guess is that the Standard Model remains fundamentally accurate, and what we will see is adjustments, not replacements. That has been the story of physics for many years now.[/quote]
I think that the "anomalous" precession of the perihelion of Mercury has long pointed to an incompleteness in the Newtonian theory of gravity.
While some sensational news stories have suggested this "anomaly" will lead to a "whole new physics", my guess is that the Newtonian theory of gravity remains fundamentally accurate, and what we will see is adjustments, not replacements. That has been the story of physics for many years now.
[quote=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Perihelion_precession_of_Mercury]
[list][size=150]Perihelion precession of Mercury[/size][/list]
<<Under Newtonian physics, a two-body system consisting of a lone object orbiting a spherical mass would trace out an ellipse with the center of mass of the system at a focus. The point of closest approach, called the periapsis (or, because the central body in the Solar System is the Sun, perihelion), is fixed. A number of effects in the Solar System cause the perihelia of planets to precess (rotate) around the Sun. The principal cause is the presence of other planets which perturb one another's orbit. Another (much less significant) effect is solar oblateness.
Mercury deviates from the precession predicted from these Newtonian effects. This anomalous rate of precession of the perihelion of Mercury's orbit was first recognized in 1859 as a problem in celestial mechanics, by Urbain Le Verrier. His reanalysis of available timed observations of transits of Mercury over the Sun's disk from 1697 to 1848 showed that the actual rate of the precession disagreed from that predicted from Newton's theory by 38″ (arcseconds) per tropical century (later re-estimated at 43″ by Simon Newcomb in 1882). A number of ad hoc and ultimately unsuccessful solutions were proposed, but they tended to introduce more problems.
In general relativity, this remaining precession, or change of orientation of the orbital ellipse within its orbital plane, is explained by gravitation being mediated by the curvature of spacetime. Einstein showed that general relativity agrees closely with the observed amount of perihelion shift. This was a powerful factor motivating the adoption of general relativity.
Although earlier measurements of planetary orbits were made using conventional telescopes, more accurate measurements are now made with radar. The total observed precession of Mercury is 574.10″±0.65 per century relative to the inertial ICRF. This precession can be attributed to the following causes:
[code]Sources of the precession of perihelion for Mercury
Amount (arcsec/Julian century) Cause
----------------------------------------------------------------------
532.3035 Gravitational tugs of other solar bodies
042.9799 Gravitoelectric effects (Schwarzschild-like), a General Relativity effect
000.0286 Oblateness of the Sun (quadrupole moment)
−000.0020 Lense–Thirring precession
575.31 Total predicted
574.10±0.65 Observed[/code] [/quote]