APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by geckzilla » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42 pm

Evermore wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Evermore wrote:
They don't automatically breathe if their mouths and noses aren't cleared of mucus etc.
Your point?
Automatic is not always automatic.
It's still automatic. The cells still communicate... and they are waiting for the airway to clear.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Evermore » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:57 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Evermore wrote:
geckzilla wrote:The same way they automatically breathe. It's not hard! Down the rabbit hole of non-free will, we go.
They don't automatically breathe if their mouths and noses aren't cleared of mucus etc.
Your point?
Automatic is not always automatic.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:30 pm

blucat wrote:What I love about this picture, and a lot of the new very hi resolution pictures, is the 3D effect. You can actually see (or is it just me?) that the centre is 'lower' or further away than the outside. I looks like the thing is really whirl-pooling 'down'.
It's just you. The center is actually closer than the outside. A spiral galaxy has a large, somewhat spherical central region surrounded by a large flat disc. So the central region is bulging out towards us. The illusion of a whirlpool is also just that- an illusion. Nothing is falling in towards the center.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by blucat » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:49 pm

What I love about this picture, and a lot of the new very hi resolution pictures, is the 3D effect. You can actually see (or is it just me?) that the centre is 'lower' or further away than the outside. I looks like the thing is really whirl-pooling 'down'. I just love it. I first noticed it when Cassini took pictures of Jupiter. The Voyager pictures just didn't show it, they looked 2D. So to see the outside of the massive storms or 'hurricanes' much higher than the centre really impressed me. Here is the first one I saw like this:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA07783.jpg

This image is too big for this page, but you need that to see the detail. Zoom into the top middle part of the image, there are two storms beside each other, one with a white centre and one red. You can really see the outside of the storms is much higher.

Well, maybe I'm easily impressed!! :-)

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by starsurfer » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:19 pm

APOD Robot wrote:this beauty and beast are cataloged as NGC 6814

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by geckzilla » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:25 pm

Evermore wrote:
geckzilla wrote:The same way they automatically breathe. It's not hard! Down the rabbit hole of non-free will, we go.
They don't automatically breathe if their mouths and noses aren't cleared of mucus etc.
Your point?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Evermore » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:20 pm

geckzilla wrote:The same way they automatically breathe. It's not hard! Down the rabbit hole of non-free will, we go.
They don't automatically breathe if their mouths and noses aren't cleared of mucus etc.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Fred the Cat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:52 pm

geckzilla wrote:But it's enough to say that all the important things got their own little patterns to follow because it just so happened to work, whatever pathway it takes.
I think I see what you are saying. Just because we don't know "why" is no reason to jump to conclusions?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by geckzilla » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:59 pm

But it's enough to say that all the important things got their own little patterns to follow because it just so happened to work, whatever pathway it takes.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Fred the Cat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:25 pm

geckzilla wrote:The same way they automatically breathe. It's not hard! Down the rabbit hole of non-free will, we go.
Exactly how we know to carry out certain functions is up in the air. Pheromones? But when and how we breathe seems less uncertain. When I can't it's usually because I'm apneathetic. :ssmile:

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by geckzilla » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:39 pm

The same way they automatically breathe. It's not hard! Down the rabbit hole of non-free will, we go.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Fred the Cat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:29 pm

Evermore wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote: You can have a design without a designer.
Especially when you've got a brain capable of seeing designs in purely random data, much less something with structure formed through physical interactions.
Then why do newborn mamals, without any previous instruction or patterning, automatically seek out the nipple?
Good question :?:

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Evermore » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:05 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote:
Fred the Cat wrote:Is the name for such a galaxy a euphemism? Grand design is a philosophically loaded gun. Taken individually the words might portray an impressive structure but put together their meaning has been very divisive. Hawking and Mlodinow attempt to use their similarly-titled book to take us through the history of scientific learning into a universe of 10 dimensions and M-theory. The "grand" part is obvious but the "design" part of the name implies much more. :?
You can have a design without a designer.
Especially when you've got a brain capable of seeing designs in purely random data, much less something with structure formed through physical interactions.
Then why do newborn mamals, without any previous instruction or patterning, automatically seek out the nipple?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Evermore » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:03 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
ShaileshS wrote:Is this galaxy rotating clockwise or counter clockwise ? I read that scientist expect half the galaxies to be of each type but are there any signs or indications based on observations and studies done of so many galaxies by which we can say if this is spinning one way or the other ? Thanks in advance to all who respond.
Nearly all spiral galaxies rotate such that their arms are trailing. A few appear to rotate with their arms leading- probably because of past interactions with other galaxies. Of course, "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" are meaningless in any absolute sense. But from our perspective, we see galaxies rotating both directions, with close to a 50/50 split, as would be expected. However, a large survey a few years back suggested that their might be a small imbalance. If so, the cause remains uncertain. This one, from our perspective and in the coordinate frame of the image is likely rotating counterclockwise.
Arms trailing or proceeding .. could it be this indicates direction of travel?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by geckzilla » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:47 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Fred the Cat wrote:Is the name for such a galaxy a euphemism? Grand design is a philosophically loaded gun. Taken individually the words might portray an impressive structure but put together their meaning has been very divisive. Hawking and Mlodinow attempt to use their similarly-titled book to take us through the history of scientific learning into a universe of 10 dimensions and M-theory. The "grand" part is obvious but the "design" part of the name implies much more. :?
You can have a design without a designer.
Especially when you've got a brain capable of seeing designs in purely random data, much less something with structure formed through physical interactions.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:42 pm

Fred the Cat wrote:Is the name for such a galaxy a euphemism? Grand design is a philosophically loaded gun. Taken individually the words might portray an impressive structure but put together their meaning has been very divisive. Hawking and Mlodinow attempt to use their similarly-titled book to take us through the history of scientific learning into a universe of 10 dimensions and M-theory. The "grand" part is obvious but the "design" part of the name implies much more. :?
You can have a design without a designer.

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Fred the Cat » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:27 pm

I might be put off by the name but the image itself is almost immaculate. I don't have the expertise to begin to understand the magic that goes into processing the Hubble data into what we see today but I do like the outcome. On high resolution the diffraction spikes of the foreground stars are quite unique. I can't say that I have noticed that effect before. And the "eye" of the central nucleus amongst the swirling gas and dust is so finely detailed that I think it's looking back at me. :wink: I could be dreaming Boomer or, possibly, there is a grand design after all.

It just happens to be Gecks! :clap:

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Boomer12k » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:54 pm

Ann wrote:
Dad is watching wrote:In a spiral galaxy, to be actually considered an 'arm', how far around the galaxy does a trail of stars and matter have to extend?
NGC 2857. Photo:
European Southern Observatory - NASA/IPAC Extragalactic Database
NGC 7793. Photo: Josef Pöpsel.

Ann, I am thinking with NGC 7793, there were many, many, many, small mergers... and it is still in a state of "settling"....

:---[===] *















NGC 2857 has fantastically long arms that extend more than 360o around the galaxy's center. NGC 2857 is a perfect example of a grand design galaxy with two long elegant arms.

But what about NGC 7793? Its disk appears to be "exploding" with short arms in all directions. Is NGC 7793 a spiral galaxy? Yes, it is classified as an Sd galaxy, the loosest of all spiral galaxies. Are those things arm? I guess they are.

Ann

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Boomer12k » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:51 pm

Wow... just awesome...

Look into my eye... you are getting SLEEEPY....SLEEEEEEEPIER....SLLLEEEEEEEEEPPPPIIIER......

zzzzzzzzzzz

:---[===] *

Re: Favorite APOD

by Chris Peterson » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:06 pm

nycpaull wrote:Is there an animation that would simulate/demonstrate the full life of a galaxy from formation to end? Would a possible end of a galaxy look like water flowing down a drain as its black hole devours it?
There are numerical simulations of galaxy evolution. However, they are not consumed by their central black holes. They are disrupted and dispersed by other galaxies, and eventually lose their gas and dust, becoming stable. If they still have their black hole, it will simply be orbited by all the other stars.

Re: Favorite APOD

by nycpaull » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:23 pm

Is there an animation that would simulate/demonstrate the full life of a galaxy from formation to end? Would a possible end of a galaxy look like water flowing down a drain as its black hole devours it?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Ann » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:34 pm

Dad is watching wrote:In a spiral galaxy, to be actually considered an 'arm', how far around the galaxy does a trail of stars and matter have to extend?
NGC 2857. Photo:
European Southern Observatory - NASA/IPAC Extragalactic Database
NGC 7793. Photo: Josef Pöpsel.

















NGC 2857 has fantastically long arms that extend more than 360o around the galaxy's center. NGC 2857 is a perfect example of a grand design galaxy with two long elegant arms.

But what about NGC 7793? Its disk appears to be "exploding" with short arms in all directions. Is NGC 7793 a spiral galaxy? Yes, it is classified as an Sd galaxy, the loosest of all spiral galaxies. Are those things arm? I guess they are.

Ann

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by zendae » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:06 pm

Is there an artist's depiction of what the Galactic Center of a typical spiral galaxy would look like if a camera were, say, a couple of light years from it? Not so much the very center, but the overall hazy glow of stars that are a few hundred to a couple thousand light years across?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by Fred the Cat » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:56 pm

Is the name for such a galaxy a euphemism? Grand design is a philosophically loaded gun. Taken individually the words might portray an impressive structure but put together their meaning has been very divisive. Hawking and Mlodinow attempt to use their similarly-titled book to take us through the history of scientific learning into a universe of 10 dimensions and M-theory. The "grand" part is obvious but the "design" part of the name implies much more. :?

Re: APOD: NGC 6814: Grand Design Spiral Galaxy... (2016 Jun 21)

by neufer » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:21 pm

Dad is watching wrote:
In a spiral galaxy, to be actually considered an 'arm', how far around the galaxy does a trail of stars and matter have to extend?
That sort of depends if you, yourself, believe that you live in the Orion–Cygnus Arm or in the Local/Orion Spur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Arm wrote: <<The Orion Arm is a minor spiral arm of the Milky Way some 3,500 light-years across and approximately 10,000 light-years in length. The Solar System, including the Earth, lies within the Orion Arm. It is also referred to by its full name, the Orion–Cygnus Arm, as well as Local Arm, Orion Bridge, Local Spur and Orion Spur.

The Orion Arm is named for the Orion constellation, which is one of the most prominent constellations of Northern Hemisphere winter (Southern Hemisphere summer). Some of the brightest stars and most famous celestial objects of this constellation (Betelgeuse, Rigel, the stars of Orion's Belt, the Orion Nebula) are located within the Orion Arm, as shown on the interactive map below.

The Orion Arm is located between the Carina–Sagittarius Arm (toward the Galactic Center) and the Perseus Arm (toward the outside Universe), the latter one of the two major arms of the Milky Way. Long thought to be a minor structure, a "spur" between the two longer adjacent arms Perseus and Carina-Sagittarius, evidence was presented in mid 2013 that it might be a branch of the Perseus Arm, or possibly an independent arm segment itself.

Within the Orion Arm, the Solar System, including Earth, is located close to the inner rim in the Local Bubble, about halfway along the Orion Arm's length, approximately 8,000 parsecs (26,000 light-years) from the Galactic Center.>>

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