APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) :ssmile: :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol2: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen:
View more smilies

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by alter-ego » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:48 am

SouthEastAsia wrote:
alter-ego wrote:
SouthEastAsia wrote:I'd go for landing in the center of that crater/wall-like structure in the lower-right image, on Comet's body. It might be best protected against the elements there, while also perhaps being able to study more about the interior of a circular wall on a Comet? Just my thoughts...
The landing site will need to be in sunlight a significant amount of time due to the solar cells covering the lander, Philae. The red zones (100% sunlight) are apparently not favored, while the yellow and orange zones are. The green spots mark provisional landing sites. The blue zones are in permanent shadow.
Hey, thanks for that very interesting info and link!

Based on what you gave, I'm going to make an assessment that the said walled/crater-like structure in the lower-right image on Comet's body might actually correlate to the 'Orange' coordinates on the digitzed landing analysis graphic?

And orange oasis within a sea of 100% red no-go zone?

If so, my gut would still just say; go for that neat little sweet zone (even if it's not one of the provisionals)!
So of 10 remaining candidate landing sites (Sep 15), site "J" has been tentatively chosen, pending final review. It is on Chury's small lobe, and is near gas jets already forming (S&T). I think I've located site J on the earlier graphic. The perspectives do not correlate exactly but close enough to show some similar features (in particular the permanent shadow zone):
Philae Landing Site J_Composite.JPG

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by stargazer » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:54 am

What seems interesting to me:
- Why is gravel laying on the smooth surface of the neck? I mean one of the two chunks should serve as a center of gravity where the rocks fall on. Or ist this the place where the the gravity of both big pieces compensates each other?
- Close to the top edge of the picture, right below the 9 of August 19, one sees a gravel field below a cliff on a smooth surface. I magnified the picture and found a large rock with a very straight feature emanating. It's not an optical distortion because also the shadow corresponds to the shape. Would be graet if Rosetta or Philae had a closer look.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by SouthEastAsia » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:43 am

alter-ego wrote:
SouthEastAsia wrote:I'd go for landing in the center of that crater/wall-like structure in the lower-right image, on Comet's body. It might be best protected against the elements there, while also perhaps being able to study more about the interior of a circular wall on a Comet? Just my thoughts...
The landing site will need to be in sunlight a significant amount of time due to the solar cells covering the lander, Philae. The red zones (100% sunlight) are apparently not favored, while the yellow and orange zones are. The green spots mark provisional landing sites. The blue zones are in permanent shadow.

Hey, thanks for that very interesting info and link!

Based on what you gave, I'm going to make an assessment that the said walled/crater-like structure in the lower-right image on Comet's body might actually correlate to the 'Orange' coordinates on the digitzed landing analysis graphic?

And orange oasis within a sea of 100% red no-go zone?

If so, my gut would still just say; go for that neat little sweet zone (even if it's not one of the provisionals)!

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by ta152h0 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:53 pm

Certaily will not be anything like Tempel 2 was . That impact would have fractured this comet, maybe rung its bell for a while

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by JohnD » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:41 pm

The shape of the comet will make the gravity field around it complex, and according to the NS, the green landing sites (bottom of first page) are where it will be most vertical to the surface. The neck will be a poor site as what gravity there is there will not be vertical to the 'ground'.

Won't the investigators want to land on a 'rocky' area? The dust that has settled elsewhere may be mainly from this comet, but could be from anywhere.

John

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:16 pm

bactame wrote:Landing on the object is one thing but drilling into the surface seems foolhardy. The object is obviously in a tenuous state and anything can disturb and change its behavior. The smooth spots are likely dusts or condensates and landing there will remove the material. This would interfere with analysis possibly reveal cracks which drilling will exacerbate. If you've got to land do so on a visible surface. Just because the craft has tools shouldn't imply they must be used.
There's nothing "tenuous" about this comet. It has undergone cyclic gravitational interaction with the Sun hundreds or thousands of times, every few years, been subjected to heating and cooling, and regular outgassing. A bit of shallow sampling of its surface isn't going to have any effect on it.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by bactame » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:25 am

Landing on the object is one thing but drilling into the surface seems foolhardy. The object is obviously in a tenuous state and anything can disturb and change its behavior. The smooth spots are likely dusts or condensates and landing there will remove the material. This would interfere with analysis possibly reveal cracks which drilling will exacerbate. If you've got to land do so on a visible surface. Just because the craft has tools shouldn't imply they must be used.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by alter-ego » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:37 am

SouthEastAsia wrote:I'd go for landing in the center of that crater/wall-like structure in the lower-right image, on Comet's body. It might be best protected against the elements there, while also perhaps being able to study more about the interior of a circular wall on a Comet? Just my thoughts...
The landing site will need to be in sunlight a significant amount of time due to the solar cells covering the lander, Philae. The red zones (100% sunlight) are apparently not favored, while the yellow and orange zones are. The green spots mark provisional landing sites. The blue zones are in permanent shadow. The nature of the lat/long coordinate system is discussed some in Emily Lakdawalla's post (comet's unusual nucleus link in the APOD description)
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
http://www.planetary.org/multimedia/spa ... hilae.html
http://earthsky.org/space/exploring-ros ... erasimenko

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by SouthEastAsia » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:11 am

I'd go for landing in the center of that crater/wall-like structure in the lower-right image, on Comet's body. It might be best protected against the elements there, while also perhaps being able to study more about the interior of a circular wall on a Comet? Just my thoughts...

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Diana » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:21 pm

Well, someone has to go there...

This comet has a skull face. Just above the Neck. Looking to the right. It even has teeth!

Tootles,
Diana

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by LocalColor » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:37 pm

The "layering" looks more like the way heat radiating off a dark building melts "fins" into a frozen pile of dirty snow (see it in our back yard every winter.)

What a wonderful photo!! Go Rosetta and Philae!

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by ta152h0 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:39 pm

do you think the ice is going to gas and bypass the liquid state ?

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by bystander » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:26 pm

MarkBour wrote: is the plan for Rosetta and Philae to be sending data right through the comet's perihelion?

Yes

ESA Rosetta: One Year to Perihelion!

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by ta152h0 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:01 pm

Anywhere facing the Earth

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by MarkBour » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:44 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:They may wish Philae had wheel instead of legs to help that process though I'm sure Rosetta will scope out the comet quite well.
If Philae had wheels it would likely roll right off the comet into space.
You are right Geck. Spiderman would have a hard time navigating this terrain.
…and sticking to it. Come to think about it – Philae comes pretty close to that concept :?:
True. Looks like a good challenge. They did bring duct tape, right? :-)

Oh, and seriously, if they land successfully, is the plan for Rosetta and Philae to be sending data right through the comet's perihelion?

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:06 pm

geckzilla wrote:
Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:They may wish Philae had wheel instead of legs to help that process though I'm sure Rosetta will scope out the comet quite well.
If Philae had wheels it would likely roll right off the comet into space.
You are right Geck. Spiderman would have a hard time navigating this terrain.
…and sticking to it. Come to think about it – Philae comes pretty close to that concept :?:

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by autodoc » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:08 pm

The comet needs to be towed in to a low earth orbit to supply a steady stream of meteorites for collectors

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by geckzilla » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:59 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:They may wish Philae had wheel instead of legs to help that process though I'm sure Rosetta will scope out the comet quite well.
If Philae had wheels it would likely roll right off the comet into space.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:50 pm

If the small rocks are the size of houses then the spires near the bottom of the photograph are close to multi-storied buildings if I'm interpreting the length of the shadows correctly. It will be quite the task unraveling the geography of C-G. They may wish Philae had wheel instead of legs to help that process though I'm sure Rosetta will scope out the comet quite well.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:34 pm

alex_apod wrote:It's amazing to notice that, even with a very low-gravity force field on this object, the small rocks lying down at the boundary between the two parts of the comet seem to be stable and are not ejected by the rapid rotation of the nucleus.
A half-day rotation period for an object with a radius of a couple kilometers isn't rapid rotation.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Guest » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:17 pm

The 'look of rock' as the substrate makes me wonder a bit. I know the old theory that comets are 'dirty ice balls'. But what if this comet is an icy rock ball? When it rounds the sun, it discharges the surface water supply... Then routes out to deep interplanetary space where is cools way down... Then as it starts the journey back to the sun into regions of warmer interplanetary space, such warmer interplanetary 'moisture' condenses (or some other means of depositing it) on the surface creating a new batch of ice, starting the whole process again...

Yes, I know. I can hear you laughing. But there was a time when such laughter accompanied the suggestion that the world was round, and not flat...

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by giezerclassic » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 pm

Is there a consensus that the away sphere in the picture is sedimentary rock? If not, is there a way, with this satelite/probe, to confirm the type of rock?

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Discostarbear » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:33 pm

It looks like sedimentary rock formed on the upper sphere and then it eroded exposing the layering and filling in the neck with softer powdery material and boulders.

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by rstevenson » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:08 pm

alex_apod wrote:It's amazing to notice that, even with a very low-gravity force field on this object, the small rocks lying down at the boundary between the two parts of the comet seem to be stable and are not ejected by the rapid rotation of the nucleus.
Jarod997 wrote:In other news - it would have been nice if we had a scale to go with that image. I'm not sure if I'm looking at rocks, boulders, or hill tops.
Those small rocks are the size of houses. The comet is about 4 km long.

Rob

Re: APOD: Contrasting Terrains on Comet... (2014 Aug 19)

by Jarod997 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:39 pm

Landing on the neck could be dangerous - who knows how well those "spheres" are held together. And when the harpoons and drills latch on to the surface, it could promote cracking and possibly separation. Granted that's a worst case scenario.

In other news - it would have been nice if we had a scale to go with that image. I'm not sure if I'm looking at rocks, boulders, or hill tops.

Top