APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by MargaritaMc » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:22 am

BDanielMayfield wrote:I’m a bit surprised that nobody has linked to it yet, but this “Runaway Galaxy” was being discussed in one of the backroom’s here back on March 4-6. Here’s the link:

http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33036

Bruce
Actually, Bruce, a link was made to it in this post http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php? ... 99#p222921

:D Margarita

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by BDanielMayfield » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:45 pm

I’m a bit surprised that nobody has linked to it yet, but this “Runaway Galaxy” was being discussed in one of the backroom’s here back on March 4-6. Here’s the link:

http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33036

Bruce

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Boomer12k » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:46 am

The Intergalactic Medium, I guess of other gas and dust, must be denser over there to strip off so much dust and gas, and to do it verses the gravity of a galaxy...One would presume that given relative speeds, and movements with in a Cluster, they would be more uniform, and not have such an effect.

This galaxy, and cluster, are headed toward The Great Attractor area...I wonder if that is adding to speed? It is also falling toward the center of Abell 3627...the cluster of which it is in.

hhhhmmmmm....a Galaxy...that acts like a Comet...." A Comet Galaxy" ?????

I could not find many pictures of this area...it seems to be in a hard area to photograph.

DO....OTHER....galaxies in this group do a similar thing????


:---[===] *

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:55 pm

Craig Willford wrote:I want to raise an issue though. The presumptively super-hot, X-ray emitting gas trailing down and to the right in the photo would have been radiating heat by the black body radiation method for quite some long time. Wouldn't it have cooled by now? Shouldn't it be radiating at a much cooler temperature by now? Or is there some other mechanism by which it is putting out X-rays?
The radiating gas is a mix of the cold interstellar medium and hot intracluster medium. It is too tenuous by many, many orders of magnitude to produce black body radiation. The ICM is heating the stripped ISM, which is producing x-rays.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Craig Willford » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:06 pm

On the issue of a galaxy bearing a classic spiral form and yet having high speed relative to a galactic cluster, I find no disparity in the two concepts. The galaxy could merely have fallen toward (and then through) the cluster from great "height" (relative to the center of gravity of the cluster). This would not be greatly different from a proto-comet falling from the Oort cloud toward the sun. The comet's structure would be intact as it is accelerated because there would be nearly no tidal differences on the near side or far side at such great distances from the center of gravity to which it is accelerating. Ditto the galaxy to the cluster.

I want to raise an issue though. The presumptively super-hot, X-ray emitting gas trailing down and to the right in the photo would have been radiating heat by the black body radiation method for quite some long time. Wouldn't it have cooled by now? Shouldn't it be radiating at a much cooler temperature by now? Or is there some other mechanism by which it is putting out X-rays?

Sincerely,

Craig Willford

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by LocalColor » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:38 pm

Oh my - it looks like a giant flying saucer! Lovely combo from Hubble/Chandra.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by dmullins@lcogt.net » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:53 pm

The Jelly-fish Galaxy?

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by FLPhotoCatcher » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:46 pm

Even though the tail is just as thick or thicker farther from the galaxy (ESO 137-001), there are no visible star clusters at those farther distances. Could that be because the material first stripped out of ESO 137-001 was almost 100% hydrogen, and contained almost no dust? The ram pressure would have been weaker early-on because of the cluster's tenuous intracluster medium would have been even more tenuous. Thus, the heavier material (dust) would have been slower to be pushed out of ESO 137-001. Inertia could also have enhanced the differentiation of particles.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:42 pm

Guest wrote:Maybe you missed the point... With all due respect to the conservation of momentum and various forms of mechanics ( linear & angular/rotational, & perhaps fluid as viewed on a macro scale) and with apologies to Newton et al; some parent body blasted out an entire galaxy, more in the manner of a shotgun blast rather than in the manner of a fire hose.
I don't think I missed anything. A galaxy can be ejected fairly intact from a cluster without leaving much of a trail, and without leaving any obvious disruption in that cluster. Unless this galaxy was ejected recently, finding where it came from is likely to be difficult to impossible, and any suggestions probably untestable. And if this current velocity is a remnant of the velocity of the primordial material from which the galaxy formed, we're even less likely to draw any useful conclusions about its origin.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by BMAONE23 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:17 pm

Looks to me like the first direct evidence of the proposed 'Big Rip" at least for this particular galaxy.

HERE LIES
ESO 137 001
left us in a
BLAZE of GLORY
May She R.I.P.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by kindness » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:14 pm

When I first saw this pic it made me think this galaxy had a close fly by with a very large gravitational body of some sorts. Wandering black hole perhaps? Scary idea but less realistic than the explanation given.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Guest » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:29 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Guest wrote:If the building blocks of that galaxy were ejected material from some other 'structure', then the other 'structure' must be imparted with opposite velocity vector components (subject to mass).
No, it is momentum that is conserved, not velocity. And if the galaxy was ejected from another cluster, it was by a conversion of orbital angular momentum to linear momentum. No reason we should expect to detect the parent region.
Maybe you missed the point... With all due respect to the conservation of momentum and various forms of mechanics ( linear & angular/rotational, & perhaps fluid as viewed on a macro scale) and with apologies to Newton et al; some parent body blasted out an entire galaxy, more in the manner of a shotgun blast rather than in the manner of a fire hose. Whether the original momentum in the matter in the system was linear, angular or (relatively speaking) 'static'... (tho I can't see that), or whatever it was doing before that, enough energy has been added to the entire mass of that entire galaxy as a unit-whole to shoot it out into intergalactic space. And following that interaction, it was still able to form a respectable looking galaxy even while being stripped of its component parts by the forces of friction and gravitation with other galactic and intergalactic materials. And still leave a detectable trail while this was going on.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by neufer » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:14 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
That 2000 km/s relative motion between gas clouds is certainly enough to reduce the collision interval between particles at mean free distances of tens of kilometers sufficiently to create shock fronts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_waves_in_astrophysics wrote:
<<A shock wave is a type of propagating disturbance. Like an ordinary wave, it carries energy and can propagate through a medium (solid, liquid, gas or plasma). Shock waves are characterized by an abrupt, nearly discontinuous change in the characteristics of the medium. Across a shock there is always an extremely rapid rise in pressure, temperature and density of the flow. A shock wave travels through most media at a higher speed than an ordinary wave [and] is treated as a discontinuity where entropy increases over a nearly infinitesimal region.

Shock waves are common in astrophysical environments:

  • The bow shock of a solar system (the existence of our solar system's bow shock has been disputed recently).
    Supernova remnants driving a shock through the interstellar medium (ISM).
    Shocks traveling through a massive star as it explodes in a core collapse supernova.
    Shocks in interstellar gas, caused by a collision between molecular clouds or by a gravitational collapse of a cloud.
    Accretion shocks at the edge of galaxy clusters.
Because of the low ambient density, most astronomical shocks are collisionless. This means that the shocks are not formed by two-body Coulomb collisions, since the mean free path for these collisions is too large, often exceeding the size of the system. It is widely accepted that the mechanism driving these shocks consists of plasma instabilities, that operate on the scale of plasma skin depth(; i.e., Image,) which is typically much shorter than the mean free path(; i.e., Image).

It is known that collisionless shocks are associated with extremely high energy particles, although it has not been definitively established if the high energy photons observed are emitted by protons, electrons or both. The energetic particles are in general believed to be accelerated by the Fermi acceleration mechanism. It is usually agreed that shocks caused by supernova remnants expanding in the interstellar medium accelerate the cosmic rays measured above the Earth's atmosphere.

Shock waves in stellar environments, such as shocks inside a core collapse supernova explosion often become radiation mediated shocks. Such shocks are formed by photons colliding with the electrons of the matter, and the downstream of these shocks is dominated by radiation energy density rather than thermal energy of matter.

An important type of astrophysical shock is the relativistic shock, in which the shock velocity is a non-negligible fraction of the speed of light. These shocks are unique to astrophysical environments, and can be either collisionless or radiation mediated. Relativistic shocks are theoretically expected in gamma ray bursts, active galactic nucleus jets and in some types of supernova explosions.>>

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:29 pm

Guest wrote:If the building blocks of that galaxy were ejected material from some other 'structure', then the other 'structure' must be imparted with opposite velocity vector components (subject to mass).
No, it is momentum that is conserved, not velocity. And if the galaxy was ejected from another cluster, it was by a conversion of orbital angular momentum to linear momentum. No reason we should expect to detect the parent region.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Guest » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:14 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Guest wrote:OK... so what accelerated an entire galaxy to that velocity relative to the rest of the universe? And without destroying it? And how long ago did that happen given its relative velocity and the amount of matter being stripped away at the (apparent) current rate? Is there some supremely massive object or equally fast moving object (galaxy?) now heading in an opposite direction (relative to the universe) to counter this apparent imparted energy? Again, how do you accelerate an entire galaxy without destroying it? :?: :?: :?:
It's only a moderately high velocity with respect to its local surroundings (not the rest of the Universe). It probably formed from material traveling that velocity- either due to primordial interactions, or primordial statistical variation. I don't think it's out of the question that it might have been ejected from a cluster due to gravitational perturbations, either.
If the building blocks of that galaxy were ejected material from some other 'structure', then the other 'structure' must be imparted with opposite velocity vector components (subject to mass). Then that galaxy forms from this ejected matter while traveling at a velocity sufficient to rip the dust/gas/building-blocks from the (eventually) formed galaxy. How does a galaxy form with that kind of stresses imparted on the base materials? Forming some kind of galactic sized 'matter-bubble' surrounded by some kind of shock wave (bow-shock?), in which the galaxy can be created over billions(?) of years? Assuming the forces of gravitation and friction must have been working on the 'ejected material' for those billions of years, the initial velocity must have been very impressive. And (therefore) so to must the forces capable of creating galaxies from raw materials...

Knowing the direction this galaxy is headed, and its current velocity, we should be able to locate and identify the object(s) responsible for the original acceleration... That would be impressive...

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:19 pm

Guest wrote:OK... so what accelerated an entire galaxy to that velocity relative to the rest of the universe? And without destroying it? And how long ago did that happen given its relative velocity and the amount of matter being stripped away at the (apparent) current rate? Is there some supremely massive object or equally fast moving object (galaxy?) now heading in an opposite direction (relative to the universe) to counter this apparent imparted energy? Again, how do you accelerate an entire galaxy without destroying it? :?: :?: :?:
It's only a moderately high velocity with respect to its local surroundings (not the rest of the Universe). It probably formed from material traveling that velocity- either due to primordial interactions, or primordial statistical variation. I don't think it's out of the question that it might have been ejected from a cluster due to gravitational perturbations, either.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Guest » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:13 pm

OK... so what accelerated an entire galaxy to that velocity relative to the rest of the universe? And without destroying it? And how long ago did that happen given its relative velocity and the amount of matter being stripped away at the (apparent) current rate? Is there some supremely massive object or equally fast moving object (galaxy?) now heading in an opposite direction (relative to the universe) to counter this apparent imparted energy? Again, how do you accelerate an entire galaxy without destroying it? :?: :?: :?:

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:00 pm

Isaak Blechman wrote:1. what is the real speed of the Galaxy through the cluster, may by 50 km/sec which is nothing? and it does'nt produce high pressure. 7000 km/sec is Hubble speed !
The speed is given, 7 million km/h, probably better stated as 2000 km/s. That's 0.006 C - fast, but not relativistic, and corresponds to about the same Z (0.006). Nowhere near the apparent recession velocity of objects at cosmological distances. Indeed, the redshift of the entire group is Z = 0.015, meaning the entire region is receding at more than twice the relative motion between these bodies.

That 2000 km/s relative motion between gas clouds is certainly enough to reduce the collision interval between particles at mean free distances of tens of kilometers sufficiently to create shock fronts.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:46 pm

Guest wrote:And does this mean that the intergalactical medium isn't expanding as the rest of the universe?
The Universe isn't expanding withing regions that are gravitationally bound. That includes galaxies in clusters, as well as the tenuous medium between them.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:44 pm

Guest wrote:Could it be, that the dark matter is only this unsuspected intergalactic material?
The material that is seen in this image, and that is being stimulated by collisions, is ordinary matter.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by APODFORIST » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:36 pm

APODFORIST wrote:That's really an awesome picture!

How long the Galaxy needed for drifting the distance shown on the picture?
I was calculating in the meantime: 62 Million years.

(400.000 * 9460730472580km / 7000000 km/h)

Is it correct?

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by henrystar » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:57 pm

Guest wrote:
I wouldn't think that the medium between galaxies would be so dense that such a thing could happen.
Could it be, that the dark matter is only this unsuspected intergalactic material?
Nope. This intergalactic material is not unsuspected, it was detected in rich clusters of galaxies decades ago, by its X-ray emission. And the dark matter is a LOT more than this stuff, as well.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by CURRAHEE CHRIS » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:46 pm

Beautiful picture- was the brightness of the stars enhanced do you think??

The thing that amazes me as a new person in this hobby is the numbers involved- I cant even wrap my mind around something that huge going that fast. Really awe inspiring.

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by APODFORIST » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:47 am

That's really an awesome picture!

How long the Galaxy needed for drifting the distance shown on the picture?

Re: APOD: Stripping ESO 137 001 (2014 Mar 28)

by 12zsawer » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:58 am

Yes! This is a wonderful image! Would not some of the star clusters being born in the trail of material be likely to one day form many smaller "galaxites", left to themselves to wander the cluster? Or will they remain part of the larger galaxy? Very cool regardless.

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