APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by ta152h0 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:28 pm

and I thought once that the scientists and engineers here had no humor. Als, I am wrong !

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Beyond » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:50 pm

Blimey, good for another go around, guv. Image

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by JohnD » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:41 pm

"Tea Time, Guv! Cheerio!"

Oh. My. Gods. The ghost of Dick Van Dyke liveth at this hour.
British Cockney.

And the PG tips apes were chimps, not gorillas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFTuR6OZ ... 9195D9963F

John

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by JohnD » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:19 pm

"Bloke-ish"!!!!!!!!
You're in a hole and pulling me in! Stop digging!

"Blokeish" - adjective, British informal, indulging in or relating to stereotypically male behaviour and interests.
Also"Blokish" a mindless smartphone game, akin to Tetris but simpler.

Male, yes. Interesting, I hope so. Behaviour - exemplary, I also hope.
But "stereotypical" is fighting talk!

How about "British Bloke"?
I thank you! I've never been 'named' by a board before!
John

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by geckzilla » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:36 pm

So, I just asked at a Hubble Hangout why asteroids like P/2010 A2 and P/2013 P5 do not get new names even though they are later found not to be comets. Dr. Frank Summers answered that anything with a tail gets a comet designation, whether it's an asteroid or not. Strange, but it is how it is.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by JohnD » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:13 am

Chimps in space?
Those parvenues are only there because they are lightweights. What you need is a serious and committed group to take on the contract!
Yes, GORILLAS IN SPACE!
You know it makes sense.

Silverback John

PS Since when am I a "Blokely Bloke"?
"Blokely - A men's lifestyle magazine reporting on the latest mens trends in film and cinema, grooming, entertainment, life, style, current affairs, sports, and ..." Quoi? Moi??
"Blokey" is more like it. "A guy who is very masculine in an old fashioned way." After you, madam.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by ta152h0 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:45 am

maybe a deal can be struck. Call Pluto a planet and we can call this an asteroid ? .......or not !

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Beyond » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:38 am

BMAONE23 wrote:Genetically speaking, humans and Chimpanzees are 98% similar and exhibit similar character traits.
Hey, hey we're the monkeys,
and people say we monkey around,
but we're to busy singing
to put anybody down
securedownload-3.gif
securedownload-3.gif (33.96 KiB) Viewed 848 times

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Nitpicker » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:34 am

BMAONE23 wrote:Genetically speaking, humans and Chimpanzees are 98% similar and exhibit similar character traits.
I hope you haven't just offended a whole bunch of chimpanzees by calling them monkeys.

(I just read that rhesus macaques share about 93% of their DNA with humans. Nice of them to share.)
Project Mercury rocket Little Joe 1B, launched in 1960, carried Miss Sam to 9.3 mi (15.0 km) in altitude.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by BMAONE23 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:48 am

Genetically speaking, humans and Chimpanzees are 98% similar and exhibit similar character traits.
Hey, hey we're the monkeys,
and people say we monkey around,
but we're to busy singing
to put anybody down

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Nitpicker » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:07 am

According to the "the asteroid" link in the caption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P/2013_P5
P/2013 P5 is an asteroid (or main-belt comet)
The term "main-belt comet" was new to me until just now. From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main-belt_comet
The term 'main-belt comet' is a classification based on orbit and the presence of an extended morphology. It does not imply that these objects are comets or that the material surrounding their nuclei was ejected by the sublimation of volatiles, as on comets.
Humans and monkeys are different, but we both orbit the Sun. If I start behaving like a monkey, it doesn't make me a monkey, but it won't stop some people from calling me one.

Nitpicker (doin' it upside down).

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:50 pm

Seba wrote:Two main questions are: tails come from the ignition, or come from explosion? What substance is causing it?
It's just silicate dust. Particles probably ranging from less than a millimeter to perhaps a few centimeters. It's lit by the Sun, which is why we see it, but at its distance from the Sun the material is probably pretty cold- at least tens of degrees below freezing, maybe somewhat more.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by geckzilla » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:53 pm

deathfleer wrote:off topic.
Mr. Nuefer , etc,
I would be very pleased if you could verify these two photos:-
http://www.akhwatmuslimah.com/wp-conten ... crack1.jpg

and
http://www.akhwatmuslimah.com/wp-conten ... elah-1.jpg

thanks
Definitely off topic, being about the moon. Here is our Asterisk thread on that subject. http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?t=20700&p=129980
If you want to discuss it, please do so there.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Anthony Barreiro » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:50 pm

Seba wrote:Hey,
Asteroid losing his material exposes more layers of its capacity.
Some rocks, for example: sulfur with friction can burn spectacular!
Our asteroid rotates and leaves tails like below film with fireworks, right?
Two main questions are: tails come from the ignition, or come from explosion? What substance is causing it??
And other questions resulting from this:
If we had a time-lapse sequence of Hubble would be clear .... can anyone have or know?
What is chemical composition of the explosive?
How explosive can be generally asteroids?

By the way, comparing the pictures you can see the difference in volume and shape of six tails (even rotation), or not?
....
thanks in advance for your help and explanations!


Anyway,
The basic composition of the fireworks is:
(...) an oxidant and combustible. Oxidizers are nitrates, chlorates, chromates and sulphates of potassium, barium, strontium, and calcium ammonium. The combustible materials are non-noble metals: magnesium, aluminum and zinc, nonmetals phosphorus, sulfur and carbon, iron sulfide, arsenic, antimony and hydrocarbons and carbohydrates. (...)
And, of course, Dyes and Binder.
Hi Seba. Nothing is burning on this asteroid because there is nothing available to serve as an oxidant. There is no atmosphere with molecular oxygen such as we have here on Earth, and no other chemical compound in the asteroid that could oxidize other stuff in the asteroid.

As I understand it, two possible explanations for this asteroid's tails are: 1) another asteroid hit it and the kinetic force knocked stuff off the surface of the asteroid; or 2) solar radiation and the solar wind of charged particles are heating the the asteroid, vaporizing stuff on the surface and possibly through cracks into the interior, and the solar wind is blowing the stuff into space.

I'm not a chemist nor a physicist, so others may be able to provide more detail and correct any errors.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by deathfleer » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:38 pm

off topic.
Mr. Nuefer , etc,
I would be very pleased if you could verify these two photos:-
http://www.akhwatmuslimah.com/wp-conten ... crack1.jpg

and
http://www.akhwatmuslimah.com/wp-conten ... elah-1.jpg

thanks

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Seba » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Hey,
Asteroid losing his material exposes more layers of its capacity.
Some rocks, for example: sulfur with friction can burn spectacular!
Our asteroid rotates and leaves tails like below film with fireworks, right?
Two main questions are: tails come from the ignition, or come from explosion? What substance is causing it??
And other questions resulting from this:
If we had a time-lapse sequence of Hubble would be clear .... can anyone have or know?
What is chemical composition of the explosive?
How explosive can be generally asteroids?

By the way, comparing the pictures you can see the difference in volume and shape of six tails (even rotation), or not?
....
thanks in advance for your help and explanations!


Anyway,
The basic composition of the fireworks is:
(...) an oxidant and combustible. Oxidizers are nitrates, chlorates, chromates and sulphates of potassium, barium, strontium, and calcium ammonium. The combustible materials are non-noble metals: magnesium, aluminum and zinc, nonmetals phosphorus, sulfur and carbon, iron sulfide, arsenic, antimony and hydrocarbons and carbohydrates. (...)
And, of course, Dyes and Binder.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by neufer » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:16 pm

JohnD wrote:
Neufer,

Your first link shows exactly what I mean! Completely different to the recnt APODs, and most relevant.

Your second shows a classic comet tail, driven by solar wind, not by ejection from the object, and so not relevant. IMHO.
One out of two ain't bad.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by JohnD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:17 pm

DCStone wrote:
JohnD wrote:Quote "light pressure from the Sun is causing the asteroid to rotate increasingly rapidly, which in turn causes pools of previously gravity-bound dust to spin off"

Wouldn't that cause the tails to spiral, like the 'tails' of a Catherine wheel firework?

John
DC,
Only if the jets are constant in direction (relative to the asteroid's body) and intensity. More likely that these are variable in both, so you get a tumbling effect: "Houston, we are venting something into space"
Neufer,
Your first link shows exactly what I mean! Completely different to the recnt APODs, and most relevant.
Your second shows a classic comet tail, drirven by solar wind, not by ejection from the object, and so not relevant. IMHO.
John

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:30 pm

Billsey wrote:Some have recently been postulating that "asteroids" might simply be "comets" that have lost their volatiles. Think about: you get a huge population of comets trapped in orbits that are entirely (or mostly) between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, and it won't be long (on an astronomical scale) before they lose all their volatiles, leaving only rocky material behind.
Sorry, but nobody who knows anything about the subject is making any such postulation. Comets and asteroids are completely separate things, with a different formation history, different orbits, and different dynamics.

A small number of objects identified as asteroids may, in fact, be comets with highly modified orbits. But the asteroid belt is not made up of trapped comets.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Billsey » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:48 pm

Some have recently been postulating that "asteroids" might simply be "comets" that have lost their volatiles. Think about: you get a huge population of comets trapped in orbits that are entirely (or mostly) between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars, and it won't be long (on an astronomical scale) before they lose all their volatiles, leaving only rocky material behind.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Chris Peterson » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:33 pm

Ron-Astro Pharmacist wrote:Did the HST do (or can it do) a spectra on the light from the ejected material to compare it to other objects of similar nature?
The ejected material is just nuclear material. The images made so far were with a broadband filter in order to give the best signal for this dim object. It is possible that additional images could be collected through one or more narrower filters, allowing confirmation of the assumption that this is an S-type asteroid, or demonstrating that it is something else, such as a C-type. This photometry would most likely be conducted only on the nucleus, which is bright enough to provide an acceptable S/N.

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by Ron-Astro Pharmacist » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:17 pm

Did the HST do (or can it do) a spectra on the light from the ejected material to compare it to other objects of similar nature? :?:

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by neufer » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:20 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
JohnD wrote:
Quote "light pressure from the Sun is causing the asteroid to rotate increasingly rapidly, which in turn causes pools of previously gravity-bound dust to spin off"

Wouldn't that cause the tails to spiral, like the 'tails' of a Catherine wheel firework?
Near the "nucleus" of the asteroid they do spiral.
. http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap970414.html

Farther from the "nucleus" everything is essentially radial.

. http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap131013.html

Farther still everything follows its only gravitational orbit.
Rothkko wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika:

<<Carl Sagan in his book Comet (1985) reproduces Han period Chinese manuscript (the Book of Silk, 2nd century BC) that shows comet tail varieties: most are variations on simple comet tails, but the last shows the comet nucleus with four bent arms extending from it, recalling a swastika. Sagan suggests that in antiquity a comet could have approached so close to Earth that the jets of gas streaming from it, bent by the comet's rotation, became visible, leading to the adoption of the swastika as a symbol across the world.>>

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by DCStone » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:17 pm

JohnD wrote:Quote "light pressure from the Sun is causing the asteroid to rotate increasingly rapidly, which in turn causes pools of previously gravity-bound dust to spin off"

Wouldn't that cause the tails to spiral, like the 'tails' of a Catherine wheel firework?

John
Only if the jets are constant in direction (relative to the asteroid's body) and intensity. More likely that these are variable in both, so you get a tumbling effect: "Houston, we are venting something into space"

Re: APOD: The Unexpected Tails of Asteroid P5 (2013 Nov 12)

by tomatoherd » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:51 pm

The explanation is obvious: there are forest fires occuring on the asteroid....

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