APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:24 pm

Me thinks Ivan is barber Ivan Yakovlevich, from Nikolai Gogol's short story "The Nose".

JohnD, I like your style.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by neufer » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:41 pm

http://www.kateemersonhistoricals.com/TudorWomen3.htm wrote:
<<MARY HASTINGS (c.1552-1584+) was the youngest daughter of Francis Hastings, 2nd earl of Huntingdon (1514-June 20,1561) and Katherine Pole (d. September 23, 1576). In 1562, Mary's brother contracted a marriage for one of his sisters, either Lady Elizabeth or Lady Mary, to Lord Bulbeck, Edward de Vere. The agreement provided for a dowry of 1000 marks and a jointure of £1000. Edward de Vere was supposed to marry one of the sisters within a month of his eighteenth birthday. Before that date, however, the 16th earl of Oxford died and the new earl became the ward of William Cecil, Lord Bughley. He married Burghley's daughter, Ann Cecil, instead. Lady Mary, still unmarried and in her late twenties, may have been a maid of honor at the court of Queen Elizabeth in 1581 when Dr. Atkins, an English physician living in Muscovy, suggested her name to Tsar Ivan the Terrible of Russia in reponse to his interest in beginning negotiations for an English bride of royal blood. Mary qualified, being a Plantagenet descendent distantly related to the queen. It is uncertain when she was told of her role in the matter, but if she knew anything about Ivan, she cannot have been enthusiastic. He was at that time married to his seventh wife, a woman he planned to discard if the match with an English "princess" could be arranged. Ivan sent an ambassador, Theodor Andreevich Pissemsky, to England to negotiate the marriage and an alliance against the king of Poland. He was to report on the height, complexion, and measurements of the proposed bride and procure a portrait of her. Ivan was looking for a stately appearance, and would also require that Mary and all her attendants convert to the Orthodox religion. Queen Elizabeth, who wanted exclusive English access to the port of St. Nicholas, deliberately delayed committing herself with the ambassador, who arrived in England in September 1582, at first telling him that Mary Hastings had recently had smallpox and that a face-to-face meeting and a portrait would be intrusive. In May 1583, however, she could put him off no longer. There are two accounts of the meeting, one from the ambassador himself (translated) and one by Sir Jerome Horsey, who was not present. They differ widely in some areas but agree that the meeting was in the Lord Chancellor's garden. The Lord Chancellor was Sir Thomas Bromley, but while the ambassador's account says the garden was at Bromley's country house, Horsey places it in the gardens at York House, near Charing Cross in the city of Westminster. According to the ambassador, he was allowed only an interpreter, Dr. Roberts, and did not actually speak to Lady Mary. There was a party of ladies in the garden and Lady Mary was pointed out to him. She was walking at the head of the group, between the countess of Huntingdon (her brother's wife, born Katherine Dudley) and Lady Bromley (Elizabeth Fortescue). The two groups circled the garden several times, passing each other, so that the ambassador could get a good look. Horsey's version, in which the ambassador throws himself on the ground before the Tsar's betrothed and declares she has the face of an angel, seems unlikely. What the ambassador did say was, "It is enough." He reported to the Tsar that "The Princess of Hountinski, Mary Hantis is tall, slight, and white-skinned; she has blue eyes, fair hair, a straight nose, and her fingers are long and taper." Some translations make her eyes grey. The long-awaited portrait was completed in time for him to take it with him when he returned to Russia. He embarked on June 22, 1583 along with England's new ambassador to Russia, Sir Jerome Bowes. Bowes's instructions were to dissuade the Tsar on grounds of Mary's poor health, scarred complexion, and reluctance to leave her friends. Until Ivan's death on March 18, 1584, Mary (at least according to Horsey) had to put up with being called "the Empress of Muscovia." Mary herself died, still unwed, before 1589, by which date a bequest in her will was being contested. One source says her death came was shortly after a visit to her brother in Ireland but, so far, I've found no record that any of her brothers were ever sent to that country, let alone were serving there in the 1580s.>>
  • Love's Labour's Lost Act 5, Scene 2
BOYET: They do, they do: and are apparell'd thus.
  • Like Muscovites or Russians, as I guess.
    Their purpose is to parle, to court and dance;
    And every one his love-feat will advance
    Unto his several mistress, which they'll know
    By favours several which they did bestow.
ROSALINE: Good madam, if by me you'll be advised,
  • Let's, mock them still, as well known as disguised:
    Let us complain to them what fools were here,
    Disguised like Muscovites, in shapeless gear;
    And wonder what they were and to what end
    Their shallow shows and prologue vilely penn'd
    And their rough carriage so ridiculous,
    Should be presented at our tent to us.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by JohnD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:05 pm

да
But maybe not that Ivan.
And not that Terrible.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:59 pm

JohnD wrote:Is second saying in Old Country:
Я не я, и ло́шадь не моя.

I translate for you:
I am not I, and the horse is not mine.

Иван
Is that Иван Грозный :?:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by JohnD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:31 pm

Is second saying in Old Country:
Я не я, и ло́шадь не моя.

I translate for you:
I am not I, and the horse is not mine.

Иван

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:19 pm

JohnD, are you a fan of P.G. Wodehouse? From his short story "The Clicking of Cuthbert":

Vladimir Brusiloff proceeded to sum up:
"No novelists any good except me. Sovietski -- yah! Nastikoff -- bah! I spit me of zem all. No novelists anywhere any good except me. P.G. Wodehouse and Tolstoi not bad. Not good, but not bad. No novelists any good except me."

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:03 pm

Well said, JohnD, i think.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by JohnD » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:50 pm

Pah! Bing stooge of capitalist lackey lickspittles.
Try Old Soviet Google Translate.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:24 pm

JohnD wrote:In Old Country, "В огоро́де бузина́, а в Ки́еве дя́дька."
I love Russian proverbs. If Google Translate is any good, I'd say you were suggesting that angular degrees and degrees Fahrenheit are "apples and oranges". Am I close?

Apologies to all short-armed, fat-thumbed and cold-blooded readers out there. That ought to cover it.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:14 pm

JohnD wrote:In Old Country, "В огоро́де бузина́, а в Ки́еве дя́дька."
I ran that through BING and got this-->"In ogoróde buziná, and Kíeve dấd′ka."
It's still 'Greek' to me. :yes:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by JohnD » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:01 pm

In Old Country, "В огоро́де бузина́, а в Ки́еве дя́дька."

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:48 pm

Beyond wrote:BTW, you have a 2 degree thumb. Mine is about 98.6 degrees. :lol2:
Hey short-arms, I'll thank you not to make fun of my narrow thumb! :lol2:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:13 pm

Nitpicker wrote:(Apologies for the topic hijack by the way.)
Think nothing of it. BTW, you have a 2 degree thumb. Mine is about 98.6 degrees. :lol2:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:18 pm

Thanks John. But now I'm a little confused. Is "Zarya" the phonetic spelling of the Russian "заря" in the English (Roman/Latin) alphabet? If so, at least backward, mono-lingual Antipodeans like me can get a hint on how to pronounce it.

Perhaps I should re-label my little photo to say "International Space Station (Zarya [заря])", but by the time I get through all that, it would streak out of shot. :roll:

(Apologies for the topic hijack by the way.)

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:57 pm

JohnD wrote:заря
By George (and anybody else) you're right :!: I wasn't thinking Zarya was English. I just did it the right way and it comes out 3ap-with a sdrawkab->r. :lol2:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by JohnD » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:20 pm

заря

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:40 am

ha-ha, i set my Bing translator Russian to English and typed in Zarya. What came out was zarya.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:23 am

Beyond wrote:Why is the ISS labled (Zarya) :?:
Zarya (Russian for "Dawn" apparently [thank you Wikipedia]) was the name given to the first (main) module of the ISS to be launched. I originally labelled the image for the benefit of my own memory. One of the reasons I became interested in astronomy was to learn the history and reasoning behind the names of objects in the sky.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Beyond » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:04 am

Why is the ISS labled (Zarya) :?:

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:50 am

Well geckzilla, that was easier than I thought. This is the image to which I referred earlier:
Nitpicker.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:29 am

I'm going to guess that the original, longer exposure left a rather large halo around the Moon (or at least the crescent part). To insert the shorter exposure of the Moon at the correct location and scale may have required too much jiggery-pokery in Photoshop to remove the halo remnants easily. So, instead, the decision was made to mask the halo by increasing the size of the Moon. This approach has the added benefit of "exaggerating the young Moon's slender crescent shape", which appears to be a non-technical way of saying it is not to scale.

Nitpicker.

P.S. Thanks for the info geckzilla. Will investigate.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by geckzilla » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:19 am

Nitpicker wrote:Pity is, this is my first ever post to this (excellent) forum, and so I am unable to attach an image, and I have otherwise no particular skill in uploading images to the web such that I could provide a link.
Make an account and you can upload images directly to the forum. Otherwise, http://www.imgur.com requires no particular skill.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:05 am

Nitpicker wrote:The only problem with Chris' method, is that his scaling is based on a measurement between Spica and Venus, and these two objects are not from the same exposure, and hence the distance between them is not likely to be that meaningful.
Agreed. I assumed (you know what they say about that...) that the images were stacked with reference to Venus. Apparently not. The astrometric solution using only stars is clearly the right way to do it.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Nitpicker » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:51 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
stephen63 wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote: In this image, the Moon appears 230 arcminutes in diameter, more than seven times its actual size.
How did you figure that out? Just curious.
When the image was made, Spica and Venus were 216 arcminutes apart. Since they are 66 pixels apart in the image, scale is 3.27 arcmin/pixel. The apparent diameter of the Moon is 70 pixels, which at this scale is 229 arcminutes. At the time, the angular diameter of the Moon was 31.4 arcminutes. So the lunar image is scaled up by 7.3 times compared with the astrometric background.
The only problem with Chris' method, is that his scaling is based on a measurement between Spica and Venus, and these two objects are not from the same exposure, and hence the distance between them is not likely to be that meaningful.

If one instead measures the distance in the photo between Spica and Beta Corvi (both from the same exposure) -- which is known to be about 1034 arcmin in the sky -- one can estimate (with a ruler or however you like) that this distance is about 6.2 times greater than the apparent size of the moon in the photo. So, the Moon actually appears in the photo with a diameter closer to 167 arcmin (1034/6.2), which is only 5.3 times bigger than it should be (but still too big to avoid criticism from lovers of science and aesthetics alike).

Incidentally, from my backyard in Brisbane, about fourteen and a half hours before this photo was taken, I took an 8 second exposure (just one) which includes the overexposed Crescent Moon (with Earthshine), Venus, Spica and the International Space Station streaking past. The image is only 215kB and ain't that pretty. It also includes labels, which makes it even less pretty than this APOD. But on the plus side, the scaling is certainly realistic. Pity is, this is my first ever post to this (excellent) forum, and so I am unable to attach an image, and I have otherwise no particular skill in uploading images to the web such that I could provide a link. So, you'll just have to imagine it. :-)

Cheers,
Nitpicker.

P.S. Now that I have pointed out the problem in Chris' method (normally his posts are flawless, and I have learned a lot from them), I expect that someone will point out some obvious error I've made too.

Re: APOD: Moon, Venus, and Planet Earth (2013 Sep 19)

by Boomer12k » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:12 am

Nice photo....but I can see FOUR stars and Venus...there is a very faint one further to the left.

And no mention of the Lunar Corona...

LOVE the Mysterious Island in the distance...

:---[===) *

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