Starship Asterisk*

by **tonybriz** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:50 am

to Alter-ego

Thanks for the image.

I am into Navigation and Maps and follow the Civil Aviation Industry but Azimuths no.

With 2340 mentioned three times plus Greg's location and with the moon at WNW I concluded 285 to 300 degrees would cover it.

On Greg's Blog his latest entry opened with "Image was taken at 2335".

I have the FlightRadar 24 image for 2335 , Pos is -36.1229 and 145.3519 which is 25 Km down the flight path in 2 minutes at 738 kph or 12.3 kpm.

The 2333 Pos is 309 from the camera and 2335 Pos is 286 degrees.

I'm glad we have the right Aircraft nailed down regards tony.

P.S I would insert the image if I knew how!

by **alter-ego** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:53 am

tonybriz wrote: ... Go to http://www.flightradar24.com/2013-02-18 ... 567/e74ac2

... Greg has contacted me since to inform me that :
"My image was taken before Jupiter started to go behind the moon at about 23:34 so the plane before that one might be the one I captured."

... --------- New Aircraft--- Virgin Australia Flight 356 ------- Boeing 737-800 VH-YFC --------"Bondi Beach"

The link (thanks tony, nice source) and Greg's timing detail are critical to determining the flight with certainty.

Tony, your updated flight is correct. The picture below is a Google imagery meld of a screenshot from the flight radar website and my earlier postition image. Here, I've added green lines that show the Moon azimuth headings from Gregs site for two times: 12:34 UT (Greg's estimated transit time) and 12:40 UT (time of 1st contact). Also the lengths of the green line segments show the calcultated distance using only the APOD. The agreement is very good in distance and timing prediction. The flight radar time is 12:33 UT, and the travel time for the plane through the "transit zone" (defined by the green lines) ≈ 5 seconds. The tight window requirement demands that this flight (not the next one on this path) is the right one.

: Click to view full size image

by **tonybriz** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:02 am

CORRECTION To My Post Above

My previous Post was based on the Time of 2340 which was mentioned twice in earlier Posts

Greg has contacted me since to inform me that :

"My image was taken before Jupiter started to go behind the moon at about 23:34 so the plane before that one might be the one I captured."

As the previous Aircraft passed through Greg's window between 2331 and 2337 and I can't amend the previous post I will alter the Aircraft Details here.

All other Details are Relevant

--------- New Aircraft--- Virgin Australia Flight 356 ------- Boeing 737-800 VH-YFC --------"Bondi Beach"

by **tonybriz** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:14 pm

To Greg

I arrived here via an aviation forum yesterday and I pretty sure i can solve your two questions

Re your last post.

The Darwin/Alice springs traffic arrive via Swan Hill and Bendigo and on the night at 2345 VA1464 was in a landing pattern near Melb Airport.

Two Airways Bris to Melb about 65km and Cairns to Melb about 150Km from your location and only one aircraft fitted the time window.

Jetstar Flight 567 departed Brisbane at 2215 Victorian Time running 80 Minutes late and arrived in Melbourne at 0013 .

The Aircraft is a Airbus A320 Rego VH- VQY On Jetway 094 at 34000 Ft it transited the line from your location near Thoona to the Moon between 2243 and 2249 at a average speed of 770 Kph or 480 Mph.

A archived map display is available showing the aircraft moving 12X from Bris to Melb. Flight Details on the LHS change at 30+ Seconds interval and a UTC time clock in the top right corner with seconds not available click for full screen.

The display is temperamental it has controls down the bottom best left alone. at 12X two hours equals 10 minutes.

Go to http://www.flightradar24.com/2013-02-18 ... 567/e74ac2 A short delay bfore the aircraft JQ567 appears.

A/C Position Time Lat Long Altitude Bearing and Distance from Greg's Location
12km NE Tocumwal 2243 -35.7778 145.6998 34000 330 69.3 Km
5Km SE Strathmerton 2345 -35.9605 145.55165 '' 308 64.8
5km SW Katunga 2346 -36.0429 145.4335 " 297.5 66.1
10Km SW Numurkah 2347 -36.1374 145.3377 33700 286.5 70.1
10Km East Kyabram 2349 -36.3145 145.1582 29675 270 83.0

I do have snapshots of Google Earth and FlightRadar24 Displays but i don't know how to insert them regards tony.

by **CapturingTheNight** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:08 pm

tbinusa wrote:I'm not sure why I didn't see your location post, Greg (didn't update my browser cache, I suppose), but that seems to confirm what I thought -- I guessed you were about 25 miles west of where you actually were -- and the time and type of plane fits the Darwin flight into Melbourne, Virgin Aus 1464 arriving Melbourne Tullamarine at 23:59. It's a Boeing 737-800, which is what the consensus seems to be as to the type of jet.

Not sure why most keep posting that the the flight would have originated in Melbourne, because it seems clear that it is heading south (into Melbourne), and if it had taken off from Melbourne, it would not have achieved sufficient altitude by the time it had reached the location in your remarkable photo.

Sounds good to me

I have been wanting to know which flight it was ever since I took the photo. Thank you very much for looking it up and the nice feedback on my work.

by **tbinusa** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:40 am

I'm not sure why I didn't see your location post, Greg (didn't update my browser cache, I suppose), but that seems to confirm what I thought -- I guessed you were about 25 miles west of where you actually were -- and the time and type of plane fits the Darwin flight into Melbourne, Virgin Aus 1464 arriving Melbourne Tullamarine at 23:59. It's a Boeing 737-800, which is what the consensus seems to be as to the type of jet.

Not sure why most keep posting that the the flight would have originated in Melbourne, because it seems clear that it is heading south (into Melbourne), and if it had taken off from Melbourne, it would not have achieved sufficient altitude by the time it had reached the location in your remarkable photo.

by **alter-ego** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:41 am

pilotmacdonaldright wrote:Planetarium app confirms near occultation time of Jupiter and Moon at about 11:40 PM on 2/18/2013 near Melbourne.

If only there was only one location at a specific time then finding Greg's observing spot would be alot easier. There is actually a continuous location path across southern Australia where 1st contact (Jupiter touching the moon the first time) occurs at 11:40pm. I plotted this path in Google Earth. I also marked the Greg's listed APOD location, and also the point where Jupiter just grazes the moon's limb. Moving any further north than the graze point, Jupiter would slide just under the moon and not touch it. Here, I decided to call the location path the "Line of 1st Contact" (it's really curved

). As one moves along this path (from left to right), the occultation always starts at 11:40. What changes is the depth of the occultation, i.e. how long Jupiter stays behind the Moon.

: Yellow "line" shows all locations that 1st contact is seen at 11:40pm DST.
Greg's location is essentially right on it.

by **C Downunder** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:27 am

ta152h0 wrote: we are equally blessed here upover !!!

Pleased to hear good topside as well.

As has been the case over the last century, including through the cold war era, may the astronomical community and its supporters on this small spherical (and non-transparent) world in an infinite universe continue to work cooperatively from all sides, rich poor, east west, to the benefit of our human existence. On into the 21st century..... and in so doing set an example of what is possible for others (politicians included). *grin*

And let me say, public interest and public support makes a very big difference to that future.

by **SouthEastAsia** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:15 am

I'm going to go with member 'LongBow 986' initial call, whose I believe was the first guess to say either a B737-800 or B737-900/ER. The Vertical Tail seems to be a little more resembling of the Boeing model than that of say, an A320 or A321.

Perhaps an Indonesian carrier, eg, Garuda or Lion... or an Australian, eg, Qantas, or Virgin Australia?

by **tbinusa** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:46 am

Well, I figure the jet's at about 35,000 feet, 30 or 40 miles away, and traveling slightly west of south, and if so, it seems the only likely flights are into Melbourne. The one I like arrives Tullamarine airport at 11:59pm, Virgin Aus #1464. But then, I have no idea of air traffic patterns into Melbourne, and there is a Brisbane and a Sydney flight, both arriving ~11:45 -- but I would think that just before the occultation these other flights would be at lower altitude preparing to land.

So, my guess is the Darwin flight. Of course, it depends on where Mr. Gibbs actually was, which is another set of guesses ...

by **ta152h0** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:32 am

" I am pleased to say that with recent excellent funding of astronomy projects downunder, we now have lots of politicians no longer subject to road kill, and they keep us all wonderfully entertained each evening on the nightly news. "

we are equally blessed here upover !!!

by **C Downunder** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:51 am

neufer wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
C Downunder wrote: Looking very closely at the back tail fin ...... is that a possum or a polly from Canberra clinging ...

neufer (thanks) - Is it a possum (or Koala) or a polly from Canberra holding on to the tail fin?

Downunder we have long roads through vast landscapes and unfortunately many a native animal gets hit by travelling cars. Known locally as road kill. Which raises the question: When it comes to road kill and forensic investigation, what is the difference when it is a native animal versus an unfortunate politician?

Answer: With a native animal, there are always heavy black braking tyre marks on the road surface before the point of impact. Not always so when it is a politician.

Particularly when they have not funded worthwhile astronomy projects.

I am pleased to say that with recent excellent funding of astronomy projects downunder, we now have lots of politicians no longer subject to road kill, and they keep us all wonderfully entertained each evening on the nightly news. (We have national elections later this year). All good! One side of politics is running with a - lets terraform to be like Venus policy - proving popular - but that is another story.

Once again back to GG. Nice photo, congrats and good fun as well. Thanks for the extra info, incl equip specs.

[ PS: Apologies to aussie politicians - I do acknowledge that many are hard working with genuine endeavour on all sides of politics.

]

by **Thelastindian** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:43 am

Guys i think thats a 737 not a a320 an airbus at all. i am like 90% sure

by **TheNavigator** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:06 am

C Downunder wrote:
neufer wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.

neufer - perfect!

neufer, I don't understand. (I never understood anything, so don't feel bad)
I am totally OUTback now.
The Koala was qute, as God made them to be, the perfect pacifist.
I am also almost INback, time here is 3 am ( You know, under the Northern Star).
So excuse me, I must hit the sack NOW.

by **C Downunder** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:34 am

neufer wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.

neufer - perfect!

by **retrogalax** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:05 am

I think the plane is going to the Sun and not to the Moon (it was on its right)

by **TheNavigator** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:23 pm

Now this was a perfect challenge! First, the plane. My educated guess is 2 engine Boeing, because rather of rather thin contrail. The way to go would be using plastic models of Airbus and Boeing and do a "best fit" from pictures, well, just eyeball fit might be enough.
Then the difficult one. Not so difficult. Enough hints: Australia, New South Wales, so maybe Sydney? Then the date. There is only one possible, 18 Feb 2013. Why, from the
position of Jupiter by the Moon, time, about 12.52 UTC.
Using nice free Stellarium program we find that in Sydney Moon was at an app altidude of 5 deg 44 min and Az was 299 deg 30 min.
And then ? Moon app diameter was 29 min 38 sec of arc, equals 0.4939 deg. I measured the Moon diameter from screen, got 310 mm. Same scale, aircraft was
21 mm, so 21/310* 0.4939 = 0.0335 deg, which is 0 deg 20 min 0f arc. Now You need the aircraft length, and You get the distance. No time for stupid "exactness" so
I gues a lenght of 30 m, and get distance of 51 km or 32 Stat Miles. At this point I lost my interest (it is deep night here in Finland) and leave rest for somebody else.
By the way, Stellarium is not quite correct and it is not possible to find the time exactly, because program shows Jupiter missing Moon lower limb.
Their refraction calculation is not very good (when they finally tackled it, and is it wrong way in Sout Lats ?).

by **phoenixace76** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:25 pm

Looks like a Boeing 787 Dreamliner to me, those wings are quite distinctive!

by **Warmonger** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:04 pm

Faye_Kane wrote:This image is a composite of two photographs. Who can tell Miss Kane why? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

[sigh... ] this speaks to the quality of American "education."

The moon image is inverted, as through a telescope, but the airplane isn't.

It reminds me of how the moon phase kept flipping in Kubrick's 2001, but nobody noticed (it was done on purpose; some of the shots of Poole running are mirror images.)

How come y'all missed that? How come I noticed the fakery, yet I'm the one homeless and living in a cave with stolen electricity?

But you have a chance to redeem yourself. Who can tell Miss Kane whether this was actually taken at a Jupiter conjunction? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

[...hours later] It was not. Zoom in. The great red spot is on the top—wrong side of Jupiter for an inverted image. Plus, of Jupiter and the translucent, expanding jet contrail crossing the moon, Jupiter would be far easier to fake.

There's another way to tell it's fake, but I'm leaving that as an exercise for the student.

faye kane, homeless brain
sexiest astrophysicist you'll ever see naked

This entire post speaks to the quality of the poster's "education" ( I will not malign an entire country's population as she did...just her, personally ). Well done, simultaneous pomposity and ignorance. Amazing.

by **orin stepanek** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:12 pm

neufer wrote:
orin stepanek wrote:
Freez wrote:
why is the plane so small, compared to the moon?

wasn't it suppose to be huge?...considering that the photo was taken from the ground, off course.
The higher up the plane; the smaller it will seem against Luna!
More distant than high.

The moon was "low in the WNW" and the plane was over 70 km away (by my calculation).

Very true!

by **neufer** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:25 pm

orin stepanek wrote:
Freez wrote:
why is the plane so small, compared to the moon?

wasn't it suppose to be huge?...considering that the photo was taken from the ground, off course.
The higher up the plane; the smaller it will seem against Luna!

More distant than high.

The moon was "low in the WNW" and the plane was over 70 km away (by my calculation).

by **orin stepanek** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:22 pm

Freez wrote:why is the plane so small, compared to the moon? wasn't it suppose to be huge?...considering that the photo was taken from the ground, off course.

The higher up the plane; the smaller it will seem against Luna!

by **Freez** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:55 pm

why is the plane so small, compared to the moon? wasn't it suppose to be huge?...considering that the photo was taken from the ground, off course.

by **owlice** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:54 pm

Faye_Kane wrote:This image is a composite of two photographs.

That point was made and explained in the APOD text.

by **CapturingTheNight** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:34 pm

Ok. Some more information:

Imaging location
Latitude: -36.31877
Longitude: 146.08490

Someone asked about equipment used or focal length: From original post on the forum-
Canon 60D (Prime Focus)
10inch F/4 Newtonian Telescope
NEQ6 Pro Goto Telescope Mount set on Lunar Tracking
ISO 100
Single 1/200th of a second exposure for The Moon, Plane and Jupiter
Single 1/10th of a second exposure for the moons of Jupiter

The telescope has a native focal length of 1000mm and with the x1.6 crop factor of the 60D I was effectively imaging at 1600mm. Also, because the camera was directly hooked into the telescope (no eyepieces) the image is NOT flipped or inverted. The plane travelled from right to left in the sky just like in the image. The moon was low in the WNW at the time of the image as shown by the behind the scenes shot on my blog post here http://www.capturingthenight.com/fly-me-to-the-moons/. That behind the scenes image was taken a few minutes after the plane transit.

So the plane was flying in an either North to South direction (into Melbourne, not out of Melbourne) or an East to West direction (maybe Canberra to Adelaide).

Cheers

Greg

Starship Asterisk*

APOD: Fly Me to the Moons (2013 Feb 25)

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