APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by fausto.lubatti » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:10 pm

By the way this picture shows wonderful colors... may be I cannot fully understand its scientific meaning, but touches my heart!

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:56 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Dr. Neuendorffer, it is impossible to keep a straight face while discussing the intelligence of plants with you. Did you just happen to remember this cinematic masterpiece, or do you have a fiendishly sophisticated search algorithm?
I use my dictorobitary, or as you on Earth put it, Anthony, the language computer.
Chris Peterson wrote:
I'm afraid Art has reached that point in his life where sometimes the only things he can remember are ancient cinematic masterpieces...
You're a headstrong young man, Chris.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:21 pm

Anthony Barreiro wrote:Dr. Neuendorffer, it is impossible to keep a straight face while discussing the intelligence of plants with you. Did you just happen to remember this cinematic masterpiece, or do you have a fiendishly sophisticated search algorithm?
I'm afraid Art has reached that point in his life where sometimes the only things he can remember are ancient cinematic masterpieces...

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Beyond » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 pm

neufer wrote:
Beyond wrote:
Hmm... there seems to be part of a quote of me that i didn't wrote.
But i don't mind. Creedence Clearwater Revival has some goood stuff :!: :yes: :clap:
Artistic license. (Besides, you had enough things bugging you [e.g., ebola, etc.].)
Artistic license, eh :?: Ok Dr. Neuendorffer. So... how long have you been a practicing Doc Art :?:

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:53 pm

neufer wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Flames cannot burn it nor bullets kill it :!:
Chris Peterson wrote: A carrot is living, but it certainly isn't a "being", a term that implies some degree of self-awareness. I doubt you'll find many people who consider carrots to be self-aware.
Dr. Neuendorffer, it is impossible to keep a straight face while discussing the intelligence of plants with you. Did you just happen to remember this cinematic masterpiece, or do you have a fiendishly sophisticated search algorithm?

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:38 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Flames cannot burn it nor bullets kill it :!:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Chris Peterson wrote:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
One could quibble about whether a virus is a living being or not. But what about mosquitoes who carry disease? They are unambiguously alive. Should we allow them to live freely and kill people? No. And what about the entirely innocent carrot I put in my soup last night? The carrot is a living being, and I killed and ate it.
A carrot is living, but it certainly isn't a "being", a term that implies some degree of self-awareness. I doubt you'll find many people who consider carrots to be self-aware.
http://books.google.com/books/about/The ... OrV71X3AoC

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:13 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:One could quibble about whether a virus is a living being or not. But what about mosquitoes who carry disease? They are unambiguously alive. Should we allow them to live freely and kill people? No. And what about the entirely innocent carrot I put in my soup last night? The carrot is a living being, and I killed and ate it.
A carrot is living, but it certainly isn't a "being", a term that implies some degree of self-awareness. I doubt you'll find many people who consider carrots to be self-aware.
Here's one:

http://books.google.com/books/about/The ... OrV71X3AoC

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Chris Peterson » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:43 pm

Anthony Barreiro wrote:One could quibble about whether a virus is a living being or not. But what about mosquitoes who carry disease? They are unambiguously alive. Should we allow them to live freely and kill people? No. And what about the entirely innocent carrot I put in my soup last night? The carrot is a living being, and I killed and ate it.
A carrot is living, but it certainly isn't a "being", a term that implies some degree of self-awareness. I doubt you'll find many people who consider carrots to be self-aware.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:28 pm

neufer wrote:
Beyond wrote:
Anthony wrote:
May all beings be happy,
peaceful, and free.
Amen to that! Aloha.
If the question is "should the Ebola virus also be happy, peaceful, and free?" obviously the answer is "no."

One could quibble about whether a virus is a living being or not. But what about mosquitoes who carry disease? They are unambiguously alive. Should we allow them to live freely and kill people? No. And what about the entirely innocent carrot I put in my soup last night? The carrot is a living being, and I killed and ate it. The carrot was harvested before it flowered and went to seed, so it didn't even have a chance to reproduce.

Life always involves death. Acknowledging this truth doesn't diminish the value, for oneself and others, of cultivating kindness in thought and action. I have a long way to go before I will be challenged by excessive empathy for carrots, mosquitoes, or viruses. At this point I'm working on responding more empathically and kindly to humans, other mammals, and birds. The aspiration to extend empathy and kindness universally is a practical help to me in this regard, at least for the time being.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:42 pm

Beyond wrote:
Hmm... there seems to be part of a quote of me that i didn't wrote.
But i don't mind. Creedence Clearwater Revival has some goood stuff :!: :yes: :clap:
Artistic license. (Besides, you had enough things bugging you [e.g., ebola, etc.].)

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Beyond » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:03 pm

Hmm... there seems to be part of a quote of me that i didn't wrote. But i don't mind. Creedence Clearwater Revival has some goood stuff :!: :yes: :clap:

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:35 pm

Beyond wrote:
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
owlice wrote:
Beyond, Ebola's pretty interesting. Not nice, but interesting. You might like the thriller The Hot Zone. Ebola practically in neufer's backyard; scary (but interesting!) stuff.
NAH! I've got enough things bugging me. :yes:

Practically in neufer's backyard huh? Looks like not too far from your back yard either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston_virus wrote:
<<Reston virus (abbreviated RESTV) was first described in 1990 as a new "strain" of Ebola virus, a result of mutation from Ebola virus. Reston virus is named after Reston, Virginia, US, where the virus was first discovered.

RESTV was discovered in crab-eating macaques from Hazleton Laboratories (now Covance) in 1989. This attracted significant media attention due to the proximity of Reston to the Washington, DC metro area, and the lethality of a closely related virus, Ebola virus (EBOV). Despite its status as a level-4 organism, Reston virus is non-pathogenic to humans however hazardous to monkeys; the perception of its lethality was confounded due to the monkey's coinfection with Simian hemorrhagic fever virus (SHFV).

The physical building in which the outbreak occurred was demolished on 30 May 1995 and a new building constructed in its place. This facility, which is part of the Isaac Newton Square office park, at 1946 Isaac Newton Sq W, became a KinderCare, then became a Mulberry Child Care.>>
http://www.kindercare.com/our-centers/reston/va/303031/ wrote:
Isaac Newton Square KinderCare
Sol Livingston, Center Director
1946 Isaac Newton Square W, Reston, VA 20190

Isaac Newton Square KinderCare encompasses all that a quality early childhood program should be–a stimulating environment, a creative and professional staff, and strong partnership with parents that are warm, supportive and interested in their children’s development. - Sol Livingston, Center Director
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_to_Think_That_I_Saw_It_on_Mulberry_Street wrote:
Image
And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street is a book written and illustrated by Dr. Seuss and Robert Carington, first published in 1937. It was Seuss's first children's book, originally titled "A Story That No One Can Beat," the manuscript was rejected by over 43 publishing companies but was eventually published by Vanguard Press. Seuss has stated that he nearly burned the manuscript before its publication after being rejected by so many publishers.

The story follows a boy named Marco, who describes the sights and sounds of imaginary people and vehicles traveling along Mulberry Street in an elaborate fantasy story he dreams up to tell to his father at the end of his walk, but decides instead to simply tell him what he actually saw.

Marco was named after Marco McClintock, the son of the author's editor, Marshall "Mike" McClintock, and Helene McClintock, to whom the book is dedicated. Marco returned as a character in McElligot's Pool.

Mulberry Street is the name of a street (42.102224°N 72.578119°W) in Springfield, Massachusetts, only one mile southwest of Dr. Seuss's boyhood home on Fairfield Street, and inspired both the book's story and name.

The Creedence Clearwater Revival song "Lookin' Out My Back Door" was partly inspired by the book.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Beyond » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:39 am

owlice wrote:Beyond, Ebola's pretty interesting. Not nice, but interesting. You might like the thriller The Hot Zone. Ebola practically in neufer's backyard; scary (but interesting!) stuff.
NAH! I've got enough things bugging me. :yes: Practically in neufer's backyard huh? Looks like not too far from your back yard either.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by owlice » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:25 am

Beyond, Ebola's pretty interesting. Not nice, but interesting. You might like the thriller The Hot Zone. Ebola practically in neufer's backyard; scary (but interesting!) stuff.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Beyond » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:16 am

neufer wrote:
Beyond wrote:
Anthony wrote:
May all beings be happy,
peaceful, and free.
Amen to that! Aloha.
I'm not even going to ask! No-sir-ree bob, I'm not even going to ask. :no:

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:47 am

Beyond wrote:
Anthony wrote:
May all beings be happy,
peaceful, and free.
Amen to that! Aloha.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Beyond » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 am

Anthony wrote:May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free.
Amen to that! Aloha.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:28 pm

neufer wrote:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Huh? I don't get it.
  • Q: May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free?

    A: Certainly not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna wrote:
<<Pollyanna is a best-selling 1913 novel by Eleanor H. Porter that is now considered a classic of children's literature, with the title character's name becoming a popular term for someone with the same optimistic outlook. The novel's success brought the "Pollyanna principle" (along with the adjective "Pollyannaish" and the noun "Pollyannaism") into the language to describe someone who seems always to be able to find something to be "glad" about no matter what circumstances arise. It is sometimes used pejoratively, referring to someone whose optimism is excessive to the point of naïveté or refusing to accept the facts of an unfortunate situation. This pejorative use can be heard in the introduction of the 1930 George and Ira Gershwin song But Not For Me: "I never want to hear from any cheerful pollyannas/who tell me fate supplies a mate/that's all bananas.">>
Was that unkind?
Oh, thanks for the clarification. Sometimes a gentle tease is the best way to bring something taken for granted into sharper focus. I've become so accustomed to my signature line that I've stopped seeing it. Now I get the joke. "May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free," is a hope and a statement of aspiration and intention to do what I can to help make it so. It comes from the buddhist metta bhavana, the cultivation of loving kindness meditation. While one does hope to ease suffering and to create conditions for happiness, the first benefit of the meditation is in helping the individual get in the habit of responding to every situation with kindness, more so than expecting to have any immediate effect in the world.

"Metta Bhavana: the development of loving-kindness

"Metta is almost impossible to translate adequately, but refers to strong, even passionate, feelings of love, friendliness, and compassion towards all life - feelings felt equally towards all, and completely free from emotional self interest or grasping. It is sometimes referred to as 'universal loving-kindness'. It is a fundamental attitude of positivity and love that will express itself spontaneously and appropriately in action: as compassion towards the suffering, joy at others' good fortune, help where help is needed, generosity towards the needy, and so on.

"Summary of the five stages of the practice:

"- Begin as for the Mindfulness of Breathing, checking your overall energy, emotions, and mental activity, acknowledging these as your starting point.

"1 As you become more fully aware of yourself, develop a response of friendliness, interest, and kindness towards yourself, wishing yourself "happiness and the causes of happiness, freedom from suffering and the causes of suffering, growth and development". One approach is to repeat a suitable sentence to yourself over and over, listening for the resonances in your heart. Another way is to remember a time when you felt this way, and feed that memory with awareness, thereby bringing it into life in the present. Another is to imaginatively give yourself a gift - a flower, jewel, or flame, symbolising self-metta.

"2 Move the focus of your awareness onto a good friend and work creatively to contact, develop, and deepen metta towards them, using similar methods to stage 1. Avoid choosing someone for whom you feel sexual or parental feelings.

"3 Bring to mind a 'neutral' person, someone for whom you have no clear like or dislike. Look for ways to contact metta for them and then develop and deepen it. This may mean 'bringing them to life' in your mind, reflecting on what you have most deeply in common, or simply taking an imaginative interest in them.

"4 Turn your attention to a 'difficult' person. Experience how you actually feel towards them, and try to cultivate a fresh and more mettaful response, perhaps looking for a deeper understanding of them.

"5 Lastly, bring to mind all four people and develop metta equally towards all of them. Broaden out to include those around you, in the local area, the country, the world - other forms of life - all life. Develop strong, impartial, universal metta towards all life.

"- To end, as in the Mindfulness of Breathing, relax your effort, and gradually expand your awareness outwards slowly and sensitively."

From "Resource Pack 2 for newcomers to Triratna Centres: introduction to Meditation, Buddhism, and ceremonies"
http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/Trir ... _texts.pdf

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:26 am

Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Huh? I don't get it.
  • Q: May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free?

    A: Certainly not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna wrote:
<<Pollyanna is a best-selling 1913 novel by Eleanor H. Porter that is now considered a classic of children's literature, with the title character's name becoming a popular term for someone with the same optimistic outlook. The novel's success brought the "Pollyanna principle" (along with the adjective "Pollyannaish" and the noun "Pollyannaism") into the language to describe someone who seems always to be able to find something to be "glad" about no matter what circumstances arise. It is sometimes used pejoratively, referring to someone whose optimism is excessive to the point of naïveté or refusing to accept the facts of an unfortunate situation. This pejorative use can be heard in the introduction of the 1930 George and Ira Gershwin song But Not For Me: "I never want to hear from any cheerful pollyannas/who tell me fate supplies a mate/that's all bananas.">>
Was that unkind?

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:03 pm

neufer wrote:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Please be kind to me when I ask "stupid questions".
May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free.
  • Hmmmm... was that final request supposed to be a question requiring a response :?:
Huh? I don't get it.

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:41 pm

Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Please be kind to me when I ask "stupid questions".
May all beings be happy, peaceful, and free.
  • Hmmmm... was that final request supposed to be a question requiring a response :?:

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by Anthony Barreiro » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:48 pm

Our conversation here has gotten me thinking about how we learn.

Swiss developmental psychologist Jean Piaget observed and studied how his own children learned things, from infancy through adolescence, and came up with a widely influential theory of cognitive development. Essentially, at any given stage of development we have a cognitive schema, a model of how the world works. As we assimilate more and more facts and experiences into our model, we experience more and more inconsistencies and contradictions between our model and how the world actually works. At some point we reach a breaking point, and we need to accommodate our model to the world. We develop a new cognitive schema that overlays the old one, and this accommodation marks the beginning of a new stage of cognitive development.

A very simple example: if you show a young child two glasses of water, one tall and thin and the other short and wide, each holding the same amount of water, and you ask the child which glass has more water, the child will say the taller glass has more water. An older child will have developed a more sophisticated (perhaps I should use another adjective!) model that accommodates both height and width to intuitively calculate volume, and will correctly tell you that they both have the same volume of water.

On a much more sophisticated (sorry!) level, Copernicus and Kepler, Newton and Einstein ... .

If we remain curious, this dialectical process of assimilation of facts and experiences and accommodations of our models of the world can continue throughout the life span. I guess the key point I'm trying to make is that when we're asking "stupid questions" we may have an opportunity to make a quantum leap in our understanding. We're confronted by a new fact that we cannot understand in terms of our existing schema, and we haven't yet developed the new schema that will make sense of the situation. It's exactly when we're most confused and fumbling that we have the greatest possibility of making a lasting developmental step.

So please be kind to me when I ask "stupid questions".

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by FloridaMike » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:10 pm

Just Call me Luther, The APOD Editor's Anger Translater.....

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by starsurfer » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:25 am

Ken Crawford wrote:
Ken, thank you for both your answer above and sharing this splendid image.

It's a "pretty" picture. But it is much more interesting if you understand what it represents. I followed the "mapped to false colors" link to learn more about what range of the spectrum each color represents. I guess the orange color is the range between "red" toward "green".

It would be cool to see an overlay of blue, green, and red. I gather the "white" is a wide range.
When I saw the NASA image posted here released the first part of January, I saw they had overlaid the NuSTAR X-ray data on top of an optical image from the DSS. I took the NuSTAR data and overlaid it on top of my deep Cas A optical image that also had RGB star colors.

Here is a description from NASA on the NuSTAR X-ray data: Blue indicates the highest energy X-ray light, where NuSTAR has made the first resolved image ever of this source. Red and green show the lower end of NuSTAR's energy range, which overlaps with NASA's high-resolution Chandra X-ray Observatory.

I had time to throw together a mouse-over image showing my composite optical + X-ray and the optical without the X-ray data here: http://www.imagingdeepsky.com/Nebulae/C ... A_Xray.htm

Thanks again for the suggestion,
Kindest Regards,

Ken Crawford
http://www.imagingdeepsky.com
I'm very happy that I inspired you in some way and the mouseover on your website is cool! My only suggestion would be to reverse it, the base image should be optical and the x-ray should be the mouseover, then you would get a greater sense of the x-ray shockwave of the supernova propagating outwards. The way you have it currently, it almost seems like watching it go backwards! :D

Also I would like to say that you are one of the very few people that expertly blend Ha and OIII with RGB! I would recommend doing more Ha and OIII images of really faint things, there are too many normal LRGB images of the same things. It's so nice to see an obscure and generally unknown object imaged! What inspired you to take an image of Cassiopeia A?

It would be great if you did decide to image some more obscure supernova remnants later this year, there must be so many others out there but the well known ones like the Crab Nebula, Veil Nebula and the Vela Supernova are usually the only ones that ever seem to receive any attention. One of my favourites is Puppis A, although this is a southern object and probably inaccessible from your observatory. Quite strangely, there are pretty much no optical images of Puppis A despite being bright enough to be imaged with conventional broadband filters. The only image I'm aware of is infrared, I would love to see a HaOIIIRGB composite of it! It also happens to be located in the sky next to the Vela Supernova! Both a closeup with a large telescope and a widefield that showed both together would be very interesting!

Re: APOD: Cas A: Optical and X ray (2013 Jan 17)

by neufer » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:29 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Anthony Barreiro wrote:
Honestly, I hope I never become so sophisticated that I start agreeing with people when they say,
"this is probably a stupid question, but ..."
I don't think that attitude is the result of "sophistication".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophistication wrote:
<<Sophistication can link with concepts such as status, privilege and superiority. In social terms, sophistication can be seen as "a form of snobbery". In Ancient Greece, sophia was the special insight of poets and prophets. This then became the wisdom of philosophers such as sophists. But their use of rhetoric to win arguments gave sophistication a derogatory quality. The English regarded sophistication as decadent and deceptive until the aristocratic sensibilities and refined elegance of Regency dandies such as Beau Brummell (1778–1840) became fashionable and admired.>>
Sophisticate, v. t. [LL. sophisticatus, p.p. of sophisticare to sophisticate.] To render worthless by admixture; to adulterate; to damage; to pervert; as, to sophisticate wine.
  • "To sophisticate the understanding." - Southey.

    "Yet Butler professes to stick to plain facts, not to sophisticate, not to refine." - M. Arnold.

    "They purchase but sophisticated ware." - Dryden.
...................................................................
Sophistry, n. [OE. sophistrie, OF. sophisterie.] Fallacious reasoning; reasoning sound in appearance only.
These men have obscured and confounded the nature of things by their false principles and wretched sophistry.
  • "The juggle of sophistry consists, for the most part, in using a word in one sense in the premise,
    and in another sense in the conclusion.
    " - Coleridge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophistry wrote:
<<Sophism in the modern definition is a specious argument used for deceiving someone. In ancient Greece, sophists were a category of teachers who specialized in using the tools of philosophy and rhetoric for the purpose of teaching arete—excellence, or virtue—predominantly to young statesmen and nobility. The practice of charging money for education and providing wisdom only to those who could pay led to the condemnations made by Socrates, through Plato in his dialogues, as well as Xenophon's Memorabilia. Through works such as these, Sophists were portrayed as "specious" or "deceptive", hence the modern meaning of the term.

The term originated from Greek σόφισμα, sophisma, from σοφίζω, sophizo "I am wise"; confer σοφιστής, sophistēs, meaning "wise-ist, one who does wisdom," and σοφός, sophós means "wise man".>>

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