APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) :ssmile: :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol2: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen:
View more smilies

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:06 am

alter-ego wrote:The importance of the second technicality I mentioned is indeed less then my first, but I have to disagree with you. Unless there is some subtle semantics here that I'm not appreciating, instead of reading: "A total lunar eclipse was already in progress", a more correct statement would be: "The lunar eclipse was already in progess with totality soon to occur." This just my opinion. In the world of editing astronomical content for technical accuracy, you might be right, but I certainly read it differently.
Either strikes me as fine. The event was a total eclipse, even when the Moon wasn't totally eclipsed. A total eclipse starts with a partial phase, proceeds to totality, and then finishes with a partial phase. I don't see anything wrong with the wording that was used- even though I like yours a little better.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by alter-ego » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
alter-ego wrote:
  • - Second, the description implies the eclipse was "already in progress" as the moon rose over the mountains. Actually for Oshin, the moon technically entered totality about about 15 minutes after the first picture (image closest to the mountains). Totality began when the moon reached ~7° altitude, which you can see this location where the whitish sliver (moon's lower right) disappears. The picture FoV ≈ 15°x 10°, which is consistent with where the eclipse looks reddest.
I don't think anything is wrong here. The eclipse was in progress when the Moon rose. The caption is perfectly correct in this regard. That it wasn't total when it rose isn't an issue, and I don't read the caption as suggesting that.
The importance of the second technicality I mentioned is indeed less then my first, but I have to disagree with you. Unless there is some subtle semantics here that I'm not appreciating, instead of reading: "A total lunar eclipse was already in progress", a more correct statement would be: "The lunar eclipse was already in progess with totality soon to occur." This just my opinion. In the world of editing astronomical content for technical accuracy, you might be right, but I certainly read it differently.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:34 am

alter-ego wrote:I agree with you that getting the content correct outweighs grammatical errors, at least most of the time. There is no doubt in my mind that the editors would agree that APOD descriptions ought to be, first, technically correct. It's interesting that you bring this up here as this APOD appears incorrect on two technical points:
  • - The length of the lunar trail is ≈4°and corresponds to 20 minutes of time. As I read the description, about 1.5 hours of images comprise this APOD which can't be. There may be 500 images in this composite, but not 1.5 hours, or Oshin may have taken 1.5 hours of pictures, but the APOD does not show 1.5 hours of pictures.
Yes, this is confusing. My guess is that he shot 500 pictures over 1.5 hours, and then cropped the result. But it's just a guess... and ideally guessing would not be required.
  • - Second, the description implies the eclipse was "already in progress" as the moon rose over the mountains. Actually for Oshin, the moon technically entered totality about about 15 minutes after the first picture (image closest to the mountains). Totality began when the moon reached ~7° altitude, which you can see this location where the whitish sliver (moon's lower right) disappears. The picture FoV ≈ 15°x 10°, which is consistent with where the eclipse looks reddest.
I don't think anything is wrong here. The eclipse was in progress when the Moon rose. The caption is perfectly correct in this regard. That it wasn't total when it rose isn't an issue, and I don't read the caption as suggesting that.

As you say, there are lots of ways errors can get introduced. I don't think they are very common, however, and when they occur, somebody here tends to pick up on them pretty quickly. If so, they usually get fixed. But if enough time goes by, I think they tend not to.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by alter-ego » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:16 pm

zloq wrote:I don't mind obvious typos and grammar slips, but I think conceptual and quantitative errors in the APOD caption itself should be fixed ...
I agree with you that getting the content correct outweighs grammatical errors, at least most of the time. There is no doubt in my mind that the editors would agree that APOD descriptions ought to be, first, technically correct. It's interesting that you bring this up here as this APOD appears incorrect on two technical points:
  • - The length of the lunar trail is ≈4°and corresponds to 20 minutes of time. As I read the description, about 1.5 hours of images comprise this APOD which can't be. There may be 500 images in this composite, but not 1.5 hours, or Oshin may have taken 1.5 hours of pictures, but the APOD does not show 1.5 hours of pictures.

    - Second, the description implies the eclipse was "already in progress" as the moon rose over the mountains. Actually for Oshin, the moon technically entered totality about about 15 minutes after the first picture (image closest to the mountains). Totality began when the moon reached ~7° altitude, which you can see this location where the whitish sliver (moon's lower right) disappears. The picture FoV ≈ 15°x 10°, which is consistent with where the eclipse looks reddest.
Who's to say how these statements, that I at least have interpreted as errors, got passed the editors? Reasons could be related to language subtlies in translation, or maybe a typo that could get missed unless the image is analyzed carefully? Certainly, the editors aren't cross checking every description against every image to verify correctness. Some inconsistencies are obvious, others reqire a more detailed view that take time to clarify. I personally enjoy digging into "mystery" details requiring some detective work to sort out. I don't expect the editors to do this, but no doubt they want the APOD to be factual and accurate as possible within the allowable space. This APOD may be an example of all the above, I don't know.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I think the editors are doing the best job they can in the time they have. What I've pointed out in no way takes away the experience or the creativity of the image. It's just for me, the description did not add up, and with zloq's comment, I decided to post this with complete respect for the editors and artist.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by saturn2 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:39 am

Nearly 500 seccessive frames taken over 1.5 hours
Many work Congratulations

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Half Slow » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:11 pm

You can see more (amazing, fabulous, gorgeous) images from him in the post here.[/quote]
Wow! What a great gallery of images. Choosing between them must have been quite a trial!

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by bystander » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:00 pm

owlice wrote:It's clearly a typo; Oshin's English is excellent.

You can see more (amazing, fabulous, gorgeous) images from him in the post here.
And at TWAN.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by moonstruck » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:20 pm

Very nice. Thanks, Oshin.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by zloq » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:47 pm

geckzilla wrote:Oh, just send them an email.
Thanks - I will. I wasn't sure who had write permission on the captions and how the process worked. I guess I'll find out.

zloq

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:33 pm

Oh, just send them an email. Their addresses are on the bottom of this page. http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/lib/about_apod.html

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by zloq » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:29 pm

geckzilla wrote:Day to day typos are fine. It's the ones that end up in important places like APODs that must be smitten.
I don't mind obvious typos and grammar slips, but I think conceptual and quantitative errors in the APOD caption itself should be fixed with high priority. I have noticed a focus here on fixing errors of grammar and semantics, while mistakes directly pertinent to astronomical content remain uncorrected. Recent examples are: Factor of ten in W5 Pillar image scale (2000 instead of 200 ly), factor of at least two in light echo size (6 instead of >12 ly diameter), and the jupiter animation where the caption encourages people to see cloud motion in what is actually a static image being spun 360 degrees. Them three aint been smitten. I'm not sure what the mechanism is to get such captions corrected - but the procedure in place appears to view it more as a writing exercise rather than an accurate presentation of scientific information.

zloq

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:28 pm

sajy wrote:What are the thin white lines running parallel to the images of the moon?
Stars.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:20 pm

Tszabeau wrote:Where are the arcs, normally, seen in astronomical timelapse? How do orbiting bodies create straight lines as depicted in this pic? For example, yesterday's APOD.
Stars along the celestial equator travel in a straight line, with stars north or south arcing around the north and south poles, respectively. During this eclipse, the Moon was only 22° from the celestial equator, so its path (and that of the stars around it) were not all that curved to begin with. In addition, this image was made at a long focal length, and therefore a narrow field of view (as seen by the fairly large apparent size of the actually small Moon). When you zoom in on the arc of a circumpolar object, the curvature gets smaller. So looking at only 1.5 hours of motion (22.5°) near the celestial equator simply doesn't produce very obvious arcing. It is there, however, if you look closely.

Besides these matters, there is the issue of how the spherical sky gets mapped onto a flat sensor when you make an image. Here again, field of view is important, as well as where in the sky you are centered, and the optical details of your lens.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by owlice » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:00 pm

And smitten it has been; the replacement will show up shortly.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:23 pm

Day to day typos are fine. It's the ones that end up in important places like APODs that must be smitten.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by sajy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:04 pm

What are the thin white lines running parallel to the images of the moon?

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Tszabeau » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:00 pm

Where are the arcs, normally, seen in astronomical timelapse? How do orbiting bodies create straight lines as depicted in this pic? For example, yesterday's APOD.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Ann » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:58 pm

Right, geckzilla and owlice, I stand corrected. The spelling mistake must be a typo. And geckzilla, you're right, too: If no one points out the typos you've made, you may never correct them.

Then again, the typo queen is me, so I still sympathize!

Ann

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by xuxa » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:57 pm

is there a "simple" way 2 post a pic to this site?
its not on line but in my docs folder..maybe an email addy i could submit it 2?

thx

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by orin stepanek » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:03 pm

Interesting APOD; I liked it! 8-) :)

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by owlice » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:56 pm

It's clearly a typo; Oshin's English is excellent.

You can see more (amazing, fabulous, gorgeous) images from him in the post here.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by geckzilla » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:55 pm

Hey, it won't ever get corrected if no one points it out!

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by nstahl » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:58 am

It is a striking image and a lot of work or else some respectable expertise or both. I agree it's a very good APOD.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by sea_bee_ay » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:08 am

I think the first posted comment here misses the point of APOD completely. It is unbecoming to make such a petty comment, sardonically or otherwise. I would have no idea how to write any of the months of the year in Persian myself, I wish I was that clever, and so I would like to applaud the photographer for both his technical and linguistic abilities. In my opinion the image is original and thought provoking and, therefore, everything an APOD should aspire to be. Thank you and goodbye.

Re: APOD: Red Moon Rising (2011 Dec 16)

by Koninda » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:16 am

And here I thought this was a picture of a particularly large meteor streaking towards the earth! Your explanation will allow me to sleep easier tonight.

Top