APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by jimssmiggy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:18 pm

Lol all seti got was part of an on going conversation; if you want the first part go here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbTFctTZrk
What they picked up on was the second part lol sad or what.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by neufer » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:03 pm

NoelC wrote:
neufer wrote:Ergo, at 10 light years: 10 bit/s communication would require directed communication with a 120 kw amplifier and a 42 m radio dish antenna.
Interesting calculation. All stuff that's within our capabilities TODAY.

Out of curiosity, how "directed" is, for example, a maser beam (also doable today) vs. a radio dish antenna? Is the beam much tighter?
Large parabolic reflectors are necessary for truly narrow focused beams in any event regardless of the source of the radiation. Masers have long been used as electronic amplifiers in radio telescopes and they are being developed as directed-energy weapons.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by NoelC » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:59 pm

neufer wrote:Ergo, at 10 light years: 10 bit/s communication would require directed communication with a 120 kw amplifier and a 42 m radio dish antenna.
Interesting calculation. All stuff that's within our capabilities TODAY.

Out of curiosity, how "directed" is, for example, a maser beam (also doable today) vs. a radio dish antenna? Is the beam much tighter?

-Noel

Life looks for Life

by neufer » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:25 pm

ImageImage

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by bystander » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:55 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by jumpjack » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:20 pm

rstevenson wrote:It's common practice to repost previous APODs on the weekend. Nothing weirrrrrrd about it. The APOD masters have lives; they have time off; they are volunteers. Deal with your disappointment.

Rob
Weirrrrrrd reply. :D

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by rstevenson » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:22 pm

It's common practice to repost previous APODs on the weekend. Nothing weirrrrrrd about it. The APOD masters have lives; they have time off; they are volunteers. Deal with your disappointment.

Rob

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by jumpjack » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:42 am

lysandergray wrote:I'm curious, why is this post/announcement identical to ones posted on 2004 March 7 and 2002 July 28? They are perfect copies. Go to the APOD archive list and CTRL+F for "An Anomalous SETI Signal", you'll see what I mean.
Weirrrrrrd!!! :shock:
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990330.html - 30/mar/1999
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap020728.html - 28/jul/2002
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap040307.html - 07/mar/2004
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110206.html - 06/feb/2011

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by lysandergray » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:02 am

owlice wrote:Because APODs are sometimes repeated by design.
I'd accept that if two of them didn't link to the exact same image.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by owlice » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:21 am

lysandergray wrote:I'm curious, why is this post/announcement identical to ones posted on 2004 March 7 and 2002 July 28? They are perfect copies. Go to the APOD archive list and CTRL+F for "An Anomalous SETI Signal", you'll see what I mean.
Because APODs are sometimes repeated by design.
DavidLeodis wrote: :) Pehaps ET has realised he/she/it has been detected and has acted to limit the news before we are attacked! :wink:
That must be it!!!! :shock: :shock:

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by DavidLeodis » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:32 pm

owlice wrote:The links were checked two days before this APOD went live; they worked then.

We've killed the servers! :shock: :shock: :shock:
:) Pehaps ET has realised he/she/it has been detected and has acted to limit the news before we are attacked! :wink:

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by neufer » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:54 pm

lysandergray wrote:
I'm curious, why is this post/announcement identical to ones posted on 2004 March 7 and 2002 July 28?
They are perfect copies. Go to the APOD archive list and CTRL+F for "An Anomalous SETI Signal", you'll see what I mean.
Segment Two: RJN purges Otto Posterman's memory, dumping all non-essential remembrances:

"Anomalous SETI Signal episode? Dump! Happy People Dancing on Planet Earth? Dump!"
"Every Punky Brewster episode? Dump! The Lyle Wagner Penile Implant Show? Dump!"

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by lysandergray » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:41 pm

I'm curious, why is this post/announcement identical to ones posted on 2004 March 7 and 2002 July 28? They are perfect copies. Go to the APOD archive list and CTRL+F for "An Anomalous SETI Signal", you'll see what I mean.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by neufer » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:58 pm

owlice wrote:
The links were checked two days before this APOD went live; they worked then.

We've killed the servers! :shock: :shock: :shock:
They are not dead. The servers are just being temporarily stored in Hangar 18.
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Hangar_18 wrote:
<<Shortly after the launch of a satellite from a space shuttle, the satellite collides with an UFO in front of the crew's eyes. Because of an upcoming election, some politicians try to hide the crashed UFO inside Hangar 18.

* Hangar 18 is a 1980 film that was released to capitalize on the UFO interest of the era. Although it flopped rather badly (reportedly earning a gross of only $6 million), it tantalized those who saw government cover-ups of UFOs (such as the Roswell incident) as dirty laundry needing to be aired.

Prologue: In one of the shortest host segments ever, Joel introduces the film, and then it's movie sign!

Segment One: A meteor shower is about to strike the Satellite of Love! Joel explains the tragic consequences if the hull is punctured and the ship loses its oxygen: "No more Kibbles n' Bots, and no mid-morning pleasure stimulations!" Crow tells him to lighten up.

Segment Two: Joel purges Crow's memory, dumping all non-essential remembrances.
"Every Punky Brewster episode? Dump! The Lyle Wagner Penile Implant Show? Dump!"

Segment Three: Joel taps into Crow's brain, and shows him his first memory--the moment when he was first turned on. In the bit, Joel explains that "CROW" is actually an acronym, which stands for "Cybernetic Remotely-Operated Woman." Crow, alarmed to discover that he's really female, begins to panic ("Thirtysomething is on! I need some chocolate!") until Joel reveals it's all a joke.

Segment Four: Joel announces that there are nearly 1,000 members in the fan club now,
and the 1,000th member will win "self satisfaction and a Demon Dog!">>

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by owlice » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:38 pm

The links were checked two days before this APOD went live; they worked then.

We've killed the servers! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by DavidLeodis » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:32 pm

NoelC wrote:Heh, the increased interest this image has caused must have shut down the servers - many of the links in the caption just don't work.

-Noel
I've also found that many of the links are dead. A search of the APOD archive shows that the same image, title, credit and explanation have been used as an APOD before, with the oldest definiite such use being the APOD of July 28 2002. It would seem that a previous use has been used again but the links in that were not checked to see if they were still active.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by jumpjack » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:31 pm

BTW, does SETI listen on standard UHF/VHF frequencies too? To detect "unwanted alian transimssions".

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by neufer » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:09 pm

Ann wrote:
Suppose there are intelligent beings on a planet orbiting a star ten light-years away. Let us suppose that like us, they are not deliberately sending signals into space to draw attention to themselves, but like us, they are using a kind of SETI system to listen for signals from others. Coincidentally enough, their SETI system is incredibly similar to ours, with pretty much exactly the same capability of detecting signals.

Would they hear us?

If not, would they "almost hear us", or wouldn't they even come close to hearing us?

In other words, if there was a civilisation similar to ours ten light-years away, a civilisation that is not deliberately sending signals into space to call attention to themselves, what chances would we have to hear them?
They would not be able to pick up any broadcast TV/FM station.

New Horizons will use a 12-watt amplifier and 2.1 m radio dish antenna to communicate at 1,000 bit/s from Pluto (0.0005 light years away).

Ergo, at 10 light years: 10 bit/s communication would require directed communication with a 120 kw amplifier and a 42 m radio dish antenna.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by Ann » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:42 am

Chris Peterson wrote:
Ann wrote:Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative - that is, if we don't find anything at all, that doesn't prove much at all - so we can go on searching and searching and searching pretty much indefinitely without finding anything, and still say that we should go on searching.
An important, and often overlooked aspect of science, is that proof is not a requirement. The longer we search, and the more approaches we use (different frequencies, different sensitivities, different search protocols), the more information we have. That is, we don't just have a single piece of information, "no life detected", but we can have a lot of data which places constraints on what might be out there. For instance, we might say with near certainty that we know that there is no intelligent life on Star X which is using unfocused radio with a given power level and a given spectrum.
Suppose there are intelligent beings on a planet orbiting a star ten light-years away. Let us suppose that like us, they are not deliberately sending signals into space to draw attention to themselves, but like us, they are using a kind of SETI system to listen for signals from others. Coincidentally enough, their SETI system is incredibly similar to ours, with pretty much exactly the same capability of detecting signals.

Would they hear us?

If not, would they "almost hear us", or wouldn't they even come close to hearing us?

In other words, if there was a civilisation similar to ours ten light-years away, a civilisation that is not deliberately sending signals into space to call attention to themselves, what chances would we have to hear them?

Ann

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by jumpjack » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:22 am

At the beginning I thought this was one of the two "alien" signals just detected as coming from one of the 54 "earth-like" planets just discovered by Kepler:
http://shrewdraven.org/webfm_send/126

Then I figured out this image is from 2006...
Are instead these 2 signals available to the public?
And why does SETi need a signal is repeated more and more to be able to analyze it?!? Don't they record the signals for further processing?!? :?

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by rstevenson » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:25 am

As Thomas Edison is supposed to have said, "Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward...."

Rob

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:58 am

Ann wrote:Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative - that is, if we don't find anything at all, that doesn't prove much at all - so we can go on searching and searching and searching pretty much indefinitely without finding anything, and still say that we should go on searching.
An important, and often overlooked aspect of science, is that proof is not a requirement. The longer we search, and the more approaches we use (different frequencies, different sensitivities, different search protocols), the more information we have. That is, we don't just have a single piece of information, "no life detected", but we can have a lot of data which places constraints on what might be out there. For instance, we might say with near certainty that we know that there is no intelligent life on Star X which is using unfocused radio with a given power level and a given spectrum.

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by ScrappyLaptop » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:58 am

Ann wrote: Like Owlice said, we can never prove a negative
That's not exactly...accurate.

In formal logic, you can prove the exclusive opposite of something to be false.

In other words, if you can prove the exclusive opposite to a negative to be false, the negative must be true.

Works best with easy binariesf, gets a little messy with "life or no life" spread across the entire universe...

Re: APOD: An Anomalous SETI Signal (2011 Feb 06)

by NoelC » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:27 pm

Mr. Allen has clearly deduced (by watching commercials for Microsoft Windows, amongst other things) that to find truly intelligent life one has to look out there.

-Noel

Amir Alexander about an Anomalous Allen alien Array

by neufer » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:11 pm

Ann wrote:
Our continued fruitless searching, I mean? Well, it is a problem if it directs funding that could have been used more profitably into this needle-in-a-haystack project that doesn't stand a very good chance of succeeding at all.

But hey, if SETI can be done on the cheap, relatively speaking, who am I to complain?
But hey, since SETI is done on the cheap AND PURELY WITH PRIVATE FUNDING who is anyone to complain
http://www.planetary.org/explore/topics/seti/seti_history_14.html wrote:
Part 14: SETI Today --Amir Alexander

<<SETI research suffered a severe blow with the cancellation of the NASA program in 1993, but thanks to the leadership of The SETI Institute and The Planetary Society it recovered quickly. While no longer commanding the scale of resources made available through NASA, SETI programs are also free from the political and funding hazards that come with dependence on government funding. SETI after NASA is perhaps a smaller enterprise, but it is also more diverse, more widely accepted in academic institutions around the world, and - as the phenomenal success of SETI@home has demonstrated - remarkably popular with the public at large. With a broader base and a wider appeal, SETI today is a more viable enterprise than ever before.

Some of these projects are the work of The SETI League. Composed of about 1300 enthusiasts, the League is working to set up a network of amateur SETI observers, each working with their own radio dish. Eventually, the SETI League hopes to have no less than 5000 SETI observing stations across the world. With just over 100 observers so far, the venture, known as Project Argus, still has a long way to go. The SETI League is also working on establishing an array of radio dishes in northern New Jersey, which they call "Array2k." When completed, the array will form a new kind of radio telescope, and will be dedicated exclusively to SETI.
Image
Paul Allen
One of the best funded and most promising projects for the future of SETI is the Allen Telescope Array, which will be built at the Hat Creek Observatory in northern California's Cascade mountains. The Allen Array is a joint venture of U.C. Berkeley and the SETI Institute, and it is underwritten by a 26 million dollar donation by Microsoft founder Paul Allen. 350 radio dishes, about 6 meters (20 feet) each in diameter, will constitute the Array when completed, giving it a collecting area greater than that of a 100 meter dish.

The Allen Array represents a true breakthrough for radio SETI. As a dedicated observatory, SETI researchers will be using it year-round to search for alien signals, as compared to the several weeks every year, which are allotted to Project Phoenix at Arecibo. In addition, since it is composed of hundreds of separate dishes, the array can be pointed at several points in the sky at the same time, and therefore listen to signals from several stars simultaneously. The latest technology will enable the Array to cover a frequency band 9 gigahertz wide, more than 3 times wider than project Phoenix, which scans the widest band of any of today's searches. All of this represents a qualitative leap in the capacity of SETI searches, and increases the chances of detecting a "real" signal several-fold.>>

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