APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by neufer » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:20 pm

rstevenson wrote:
SpaceFan wrote:
The text mentions this is an artist's rendering, but is the photo of the earth real?

If so, where on earth is it?
That's the "foot" of Italy, with Albania and Greece in the background.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
That's Ulysses's Ithaca in the background: http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... 64#p141956

<<Tell me, O Muse, of the man of many devices, who wandered full many ways after he had sacked the sacred citadel of Troy. Many were the men whose cities he saw and whose mind he learned, aye, and many the woes he suffered in his heart upon the sea, seeking to win his own life and the return of his comrades. Yet even so he saved not his comrades, though he desired it sore, for through their own blind folly they perished—fools, who devoured the kine of Helios Hyperion; but he took from them the day of their returning. Of these things, goddess, daughter of Zeus, beginning where thou wilt, tell thou even unto us. Now all the rest, as many as had escaped sheer destruction, were at home, safe from both war and sea, but Odysseus alone, filled with longing for his return and for his wife, did the queenly nymph Calypso, that bright goddess, keep back in her hollow caves, yearning that he should be her husband. But when, as the seasons revolved, the year came in which the gods had ordained that he should return home to Ithaca, not even there was he free from toils, even among his own folk. And all the gods pitied him save Poseidon; but he continued to rage unceasingly against godlike Odysseus until at length he reached his own land.>>

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by rstevenson » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:36 pm

SpaceFan wrote:The text mentions this is an artist's rendering, but is the photo of the earth real?

If so, where on earth is it?
That's the "foot" of Italy, with Albania and Greece in the background. It looks like they used this photo or one taken just moments before or after, and put the light sail image on top of it.

Rob

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by SpaceFan » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:28 pm

The text mentions this is an artist's rendering, but is the photo of the earth real?

If so, where on earth is it?

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by bystander » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:16 pm

uvaastro wrote:I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this in the earlier comments, but shouldn't the description have mentioned that this craft ended up in the Pacific Ocean just minutes after launch due to a malfunction in the rocket to which it was attached? And now there is a NanoSail-D2 that is finishing the mission? I just feel like that is important. If you're going to post something from 2008, check about updated information please...not to sound obnoxious, but I just like to be accurate in my blog, which I use the APOD for quite a bit.
This APOD is about the current mission, referred to in NASA communications and the Small Satellites Missions page as NanoSail-D. There was indeed an earlier attempt to launch the satellite in August 2008 which failed when the Falcon-1 launch vehicle malfunctioned and all payloads were lost.

For more information, see the NASA fact sheet: NanoSail-D

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by Chris Peterson » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:08 pm

uvaastro wrote:I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this in the earlier comments, but shouldn't the description have mentioned that this craft ended up in the Pacific Ocean just minutes after launch due to a malfunction in the rocket to which it was attached? And now there is a NanoSail-D2 that is finishing the mission? I just feel like that is important. If you're going to post something from 2008, check about updated information please...not to sound obnoxious, but I just like to be accurate in my blog, which I use the APOD for quite a bit.
This craft didn't end up in the ocean. This APOD is about NanoSail D2, which is the follow-up mission. You might have a small point about the "2" being left off, but even NASA sites are calling this mission NanoSail D quite often. The information in this APOD is not from 2008, but is current.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by uvaastro » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:47 pm

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this in the earlier comments, but shouldn't the description have mentioned that this craft ended up in the Pacific Ocean just minutes after launch due to a malfunction in the rocket to which it was attached? And now there is a NanoSail-D2 that is finishing the mission? I just feel like that is important. If you're going to post something from 2008, check about updated information please...not to sound obnoxious, but I just like to be accurate in my blog, which I use the APOD for quite a bit.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by bystander » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:09 pm

beamrider wrote:Not quite clear NanoSail-D sails really unfurled. There are not any reliable earth observations that can confirm sails deployment.
NASA's First Solar Sail NanoSail-D Deploys in Low-Earth Orbit
NASA Marshall Space Flight Center | 2011 Jan 21
Friday, Jan. 21 at 10 a.m. EST, engineers at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., confirmed that the NanoSail-D nanosatellite deployed its 100-square-foot polymer sail in low-Earth orbit and is operating as planned. Actual deployment occurred on Jan. 20 at 10 p.m. EST and was confirmed today with beacon packets data received from NanoSail-D and additional ground-based satellite tracking assets. In addition, the NanoSail-D orbital parameter data set shows an appropriate change which is consistent with sail deployment.
NoelC wrote:A couple of unanswered questions here: ...
Is it just a test to see if one can be unfurled in space?
Usually it's pretty obvious why something's being done, but not this time...]
Solar Sail Stunner
NASA Science News | 2011 Jan 24
... "Our mission is to circle Earth and investigate the possibility of using solar sails as a tool to de-orbit old satellites and space junk," ... NanoSail-D has already made history: It has demonstrated an elegant and inexpensive method for deploying sails and become the first sail to orbit Earth.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by neufer » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:05 pm

beamrider wrote:
Not quite clear NanoSail-D sails really unfurled. There are not any reliable earth observations that can confirm sails deployment.
Cubesats (very small satellites), in general, have a long history of failures or false confirmation signals.
If in the next two months nobody sees the mini solar spacecraft, most probable, sails did not unfurl.
----------------------------------------
The Count of Monte Cristo. (1836)
by Alexandre Dumas, père

Well, unfurl your wings, and fly into superhuman regions; fear nothing, there is a watch over you;
and if your wings, like those of Icarus, melt before the sun, we are here to ease your fall.

----------------------------------------
Furl, v. t. [Contr. fr. furdle, fr. fardel bundle: cf. F. ferler to furl, OF. fardeler to pack. See Furdle, Fardel, and cf. Farl.] To draw up or gather into close compass; to wrap or roll, as a sail, close to the yard, stay, or mast, or, as a flag, close to or around its staff, securing it there by a gasket or line. Totten.
----------------------------------------
Two Years Before the Mast. (1848)
by Richard Henry Dana

. As soon as she was well at anchor, all hands lay aloft to furl the topsails; and this, I soon found, was a great matter on board this ship; for every sailor knows that a vessel is judged of, a good deal, by the furl of her sails.

. In fact, we could hardly get clear of them to go aloft and furl the sails.

. It was my duty to furl the fore royal; and, while standing by to loose it again, I had a fine view of the scene.

. After great exertions I got it, or the remains of it, into the top, and was making it fast, when the captain, looking up, called out to me, ``Lay aloft there, Dana, and furl that main royal.

. Now large eyes began to show themselves in the foresail, and, knowing that it must soon go, the mate ordered us upon the yard to furl it.

. The mate took us under his special care, frequently making us furl the sail over three or four times, until we got the bunt up to a perfect cone, and the whole sail without a wrinkle.

. This sail belonged to us altogether to reef and to furl, and not a man was allowed to come upon our yard.
----------------------------------------
Moby-Dick (1850) Chapter 109

“Thou Art but too good a fellow, Starbuck,” he said lowly to the mate; then raising his voice to the crew: “Furl the t’gallant-sails, and close-reef the top-sails, fore and aft; back the main-yard; up Burtons, and break out in the main-hold.”
----------------------------------------

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by beamrider » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:43 am

Not quite clear NanoSail-D sails really unfurled. There are not any reliable earth observations that can confirm sails deployment.
Cubesats (very small satellites), in general, have a long history of failures or false confirmation signals. If in the next two months nobody sees the mini solar spacecraft, most probable, sails did not unfurl.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by nstahl » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:50 am

Good points neufer.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by neufer » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:28 am

nstahl wrote:Well they say they're going to maybe use them to de-orbit satellites when they're old and decrepit. Japan put one up that's sailed to the neighborhood of Venus. Which I must say seems like the wrong way for a solar sail to go, but you need to be able to get upwind as well as downwind I guess.
1) There is much more sunlight near Venus than near the earth.

2) Power = Thrust force x Vehicle velocity.

3) one can, at least, control the direction that reflected photons are aimed.
  • a) Aim reflected photons in the direction you are moving to slow down.
    b) Aim reflected photons in the direction you are leaving to speed up.
4) Going to Venus or Mercury mostly involves slowing down.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by nstahl » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:36 am

Well they say they're going to maybe use them to de-orbit satellites when they're old and decrepit. Japan put one up that's sailed to the neighborhood of Venus. Which I must say seems like the wrong way for a solar sail to go, but you need to be able to get upwind as well as downwind I guess.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by neufer » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:11 am

NoelC wrote:A couple of unanswered questions here:

If it's a solar sail, where's it sailing to? Doesn't sound like a good fit for Earth orbit.

If it's supposed to be using its sail to give it thrust, why is it entering the atmosphere? Could they not angle it so that it could be made to go faster, and thus achieve HIGHER orbits?

Is it just a test to see if one can be unfurled in space?

Usually it's pretty obvious why something's being done, but not this time. Now off to go read about it...
This one is just a test.

Since the satellite seems to be connected with the United States Air Force my guess is that the primary purpose will be to have a cheap spy satellite that can go and check out other satellites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NanoSail-D2 wrote:
<<NanoSail-D2 is a small satellite which will be used by NASA's Ames Research Center to study the deployment of a solar sail in space. It is a three-unit CubeSat measuring 30 by 10 by 10 centimetres, with a mass of 4 kilograms (8.8 lb). NanoSail-D2 was launched aboard a Minotaur IV/HAPS rocket, attached to the FASTSAT satellite. Orbital Sciences Corporation conducted the launch under a contract with the United States Air Force.>>

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by NoelC » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:52 am

A couple of unanswered questions here:

If it's a solar sail, where's it sailing to? Doesn't sound like a good fit for Earth orbit.

If it's supposed to be using its sail to give it thrust, why is it entering the atmosphere? Could they not angle it so that it could be made to go faster, and thus achieve HIGHER orbits?

Is it just a test to see if one can be unfurled in space?

Usually it's pretty obvious why something's being done, but not this time. Now off to go read about it...

-Noel

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by nstahl » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:43 am

Has anyone gotten a picture of it yet? I haven't been able to find any. I wonder how closely they have its position pinned down.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by orin stepanek » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:28 pm

Some day we may be setting sail for the stars. 8-) http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... t28jun_1m/

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by neufer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:59 pm

Sam wrote:
neufer wrote:[quotes Joyce, Homer, Dante...]
Neufer, I am in awe. Well done. :b:
Thanks, Sam.

My rank IS "Quotidian Quotationist"
(and I'm quite possibly three sheets to the wind).

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by hstarbuck » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:48 pm

rw wrote:10 square meter or 10 meter square? If the former then the main package with its solar panels is only about 0.5 m in diameter and the apparent rib structure for the sail an overkill.
0.5 m x 0.5 m = 0.25 m2
(102 m2)0.5 = 3.162 m
3.162 m x 3.281 ft/m = 10.375 ft
10.375 ft x 10.375 ft. = 108 square feet
give or take a nanosail

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by Sam » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:42 pm

neufer wrote:[quotes Joyce, Homer, Dante...]
Neufer, I am in awe. Well done. :b:

Four sheets to the Solar Wind

by neufer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:08 pm

biddie67 wrote:
I must give an ex-husband his fair due- in the late 70's, he was designing solar-wind powered arrays for possible use on satellites - unfortunately they were mostly considered a joke because it was known that he had designed the sails for his sailboat.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/three-sheets-to-the-wind.html wrote:
[c]“Three sheets to the wind”[/c]
Don't be taken aback to hear that sheets aren't sails, as landlubbers might expect, but ropes (or occasionally, chains). These are fixed to the lower corners of sails, to hold them in place. If three sheets are loose and blowing about in the wind then the sails will flap and the boat will lurch about like a drunken sailor.

The phrase is these days more often given as 'three sheets to the wind', rather than the original 'three sheets in the wind'. The earliest printed citation that I can find is in Pierce Egan's Real Life in London, 1821:
"Old Wax and Bristles is about three sheets in the wind."
Sailors at that time had a sliding scale of drunkenness; three sheets was the falling over stage; tipsy was just 'one sheet in the wind', or 'a sheet in the wind's eye'. An example appears in the novel The Fisher's Daughter, by Catherine Ward, 1824:
"Wolf replenished his glass at the request of Mr. Blust, who, instead of being one sheet in the wind, was likely to get to three before he took his departure."
Robert Louis Stevenson was as instrumental in inventing the imagery of 'yo ho ho and a bottle of rum' piracy as his countryman and contemporary Sir Walter Scott was in inventing the tartan and shortbread 'Bonnie Scotland'. Stevenson used the 'tipsy' version of the phrase in Treasure Island, 1883 - the book that gave us 'X marks the spot', 'shiver me timbers' and the archetypal one-legged, parrot-carrying pirate, Long John Silver. He gave Silver the line:
"Maybe you think we were all a sheet in the wind's eye. But I'll tell you I was sober; "

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by biddie67 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:02 pm

I must give an ex-husband his fair due- in the late 70's, he was designing solar-wind powered arrays for possible use on satellites - unfortunately they were mostly considered a joke because it was known that he had designed the sails for his sailboat.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by rw » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:15 pm

10 square meter or 10 meter square? If the former then the main package with its solar panels is only about 0.5 m in diameter and the apparent rib structure for the sail an overkill.

The IKAROS of Ithaca

by neufer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:24 pm


Going to dark bed there was a square round Sinbad the Sailor roc’s auk’s egg in the night of the bed of all the auks of the rocs of Darkinbad the Brightdayler. - James Joyce's _Ulysses_ "Ithaca"


http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... aca#p94976

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080624.html
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091208.html

[list]Dante's Paradiso: Canto 33[/list]
As the geometrician, who endeavours
To square the circle, and discovers not,
By taking thought, the principle he wants,
Even such was I at that new apparition;
I wished to see how the image to the circle
Conformed itself, and how it there finds place;
But my own wings were not enough for this,
Had it not been that then my mind there smote
A flash of lightning, wherein came its wish.
Here vigour failed the lofty fantasy:
But now was turning my desire and will,
Even as a wheel that equally is moved,
The Love which moves the sun and the other stars.

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by alphachap » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:27 am

billyg251 wrote:10 Square meters seems small-could it be a 10 meter square =ing 100 square meters?
No, it's 10 square meters, as the picture there shows:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... solarsail/

Re: APOD: NanoSail D (2011 Jan 28)

by billyg251 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:25 am

10 Square meters seems small-could it be a 10 meter square =ing 100 square meters?

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