Starship Asterisk*

Yes - you were never here, Rob. You ARE the hole, in your donut. Implied, but never really here.

As a registered TT (yes, of course we have to be trained and registered) I've decided to block all future access to this thread for all TTs, including myself of course. It's the only way to prevent a terrible paradox from occurring. You are perilously close to guessing how we do this, and if I inadvertantly contribute to that guess, we'll all bud off into an entire new universe. And frankly, at the moment (my moment, I mean) we just can't afford that in our energy budget.

Rob

PS
We never had this conversation; I was never here.

rstevenson wrote:Your point number 3 is an excellent example of the sort of paradox that can occur in time travelling. You describe a circle of information transfer. But when did this circle begin? Did he ever have to do the search that then gets saved and the results deposited into his nano-PC? If he did, why? The answer should have already been there. If he didn't because he already had the answer, how did he get the answer without searching?

Rob

Good one Rob... but i think that every circle has a 0 degrees and a 359 to end / renew it should you try to go to 360. What I mean's if for instance we invent one now. We may never know what we need to know, though we have a time machine at present that we are not utilizing to know all we need to know before searching / asking. There has to be a day that the system is initiated.

About why he may need to know is simple... As this fellow said that i quotted; the TT's may have come back here for organic things. I he is looking for say a tiger or some mushroom or polar bear or something, he would have to do a search where they are found or some places where the animals are mentioned. There may be a reason he really needs the organic in this decade and a google search may do just that. Just the decision to make a search on his info looping system and perform it will initiate the knowing process, without which there is no knowledge.

You know what? This may be a very interesting discussion... if the person however does not need to start a search since he will know already may lead to someone who knows everything there is to know (omniscient) prior to the date he sets up that system. That could well lead me to say time travel is impractical, we don't have the capacity to handle such fluidity. Like this film i saw of Bruce Willis, I forgot the name, but Bruce was almost if not crazy coz of going back and forth in time. His body and soul couldn't handle it.
Only God is omniscient.

What I now understand about time travel is that, things are constants... the marks, memories we put on discs etc, things we make and everything else even our bodies are all constants. On the other hand, human souls are variables, because of free will... therefore, whatever you decide causes a constant to change in a way. I don't know if i explained it the correct way i understand it, but take your circle analogue; It only means that the flow of info is determined by your actions of searching in your system. Should you not initiate the process, then there would just be a question in you and not in the system. The result of the search would not appear in the device since you never put a query there. So yah the dude has to ask to know.

biddie67 wrote:I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through this series of posts and following the many links - there is so much to learn in this world and I do love these ideas.

Unfortunately, I don't think the interesting searches that you all have proposed will find anything concrete except for the possibility of certain individuals trying to understand precognitive perceptions or those involved in remote viewing.
(( BTW, I couldn't get that Torrent search to work for me either. ))

It seems to me that any research on the part of a time traveler from the future of our own time line -or- from an independent time line, (whether physically here or by electromagnetically here by some kind of advanced technology) would be based upon their own devices for searching their own data bases that have most likely taken sweeps of our data bases ages ago.

They would probably have no need to waste their time looking into our data bases. If they had taken the effort to reach us it would probably be for organic things that are extinct in their own time - such as certain DNA sequences, some kinds of reproductive means, some kinds of viruses ..... or maybe some rare earth metals ..... or maybe the equivalent of a couple of teenage hackers out for the challenge ....

You are correct... i had not seen this post... check what i wrote just a few minutes ago.

Your point number 3 is an excellent example of the sort of paradox that can occur in time travelling. You describe a circle of information transfer. But when did this circle begin? Did he ever have to do the search that then gets saved and the results deposited into his nano-PC? If he did, why? The answer should have already been there. If he didn't because he already had the answer, how did he get the answer without searching?

Rob

Guys i think the whole concept of looking for someone from the future making search engine inquiries in our time is just wrong... reason is because they won't need to since they will have what they need already. There are many methods to do this and the time traveler can actually prepare the internet for such things without us knowing it. At least if I were one I would take measures such as these:

Use existing infrastructure to do it:
1. I came across a site the keeps sort of backups of sites. You can view what a site looked like as far back as the 90's. I have forgotten what the address is, but i am sure if yu google it you will find it. 50 years from now you can just refer to it even if the internet is dead or carry it around and browse it as you browse the net now and index it for searches.

2. Besides, Google and other search engines do backups of their indexes. So these backups can be used to do a search on a specific period by a time traveller. TT can just pack it on some super nano computer memory, enough to keep 15 decades or more of indexes and do searches offline.

Use own future-tech to make his presence stealthy:
3. Look, the dude can actually just carry nothing but his super nano pc with some saved searches, use some system he sets up NOW (PAST) to send (save) a message that another computer intercepts 50 years from now and then save the search results on memory that he will carry around to the past as he travels in time. Whatever inquiry he does on his system in the past, will automatically be saved on his system now then refered to by a computer in the future then saved to a memory module that he will later carry with him on his portable super pc that he carries to the past.

4. Make a crawler or his own google that save the index to the future. (What if Google is just that pretending to help us, but instead a secret future link of info?) If they can send a human back here, i bet it will be very simple to send info to and fro future real time. Sort of making a call to the future. So TT will have a self dependent system on our internet.

BONUS to TT: Should anything change, then it automatically ripples into the future and comes back with him the moment he time travel back to the past. LOL note (he just travels once and whatever changes happen NOW in the timeline, it changes in the DB and the NEW info is instantly available) what's intresting is he'll never know something changed.

Sorry folks, I don't see why anyone should google on slow primitive machines to find information they may have already.
just be imaginative and u will see what i mean. Don't expect computers, security, algorithms, search engines, etc to be as primitive as they are now in 10years, whatmore of a society that can make a time machine and use it to displace a human successfully.

We are under priviledged if a TT exists folks .

makc wrote:@six1o that club already exists (enter with javascript off, they have webring script that seems to randomly hijack visitors)

@beyond 1 post to go!

Not anymore!!

Now, whats this about turning java script off and what is webring script?

hah, that's awesome. good link.

@six1o that club already exists (enter with javascript off, they have webring script that seems to randomly hijack visitors)

@beyond 1 post to go!

rstevenson wrote:

six1o wrote:"We will call it the "Time Club." The only requirement to enter..." is what I meant to say

We knew that. In fact, we knew it before you said it.

Rob

Rob has an advantage over the rest of us. He has a secret Toroid formula that produces a 'special' effect. Depending on what part of the Toroid you take a bite out of, you then see a short glimpse of the future in the hole in the center. Each Toroid is only good for one glimpse. Rob has to limit his 'future' viewing, or he will need a bigger belt.

six1o wrote:"We will call it the "Time Club." The only requirement to enter..." is what I meant to say

We knew that. In fact, we knew it before you said it.

Rob

"We will call it the "Time Club." The only requirement to enter..." is what I meant to say

Heck no, I have no reason to stop them.

I wish one would come back.

In fact, I am going to start a club. We will call it the "Time Club" The only require to enter is that must take an oath that should time travel ever fall into your hands, you promise to take it back to a member of this club at least 1 generation before you.

As long as someone belongs to my club from here to infinity, or at least as long as it takes for time travel to be developed and accessed by a Time Club member, we should be able to harness time travel with little more effort than waiting.

Either that, or it means that time travel is not really possible, and my club might be more aptly named "Club Wait."


Still though, anyone want to join?

six1o wrote:Although- as mentioned in South Park, time travel seems to follow "Terminator rules", as opposed to "Back to the Future" rules. So no bringing extra gadgets like computers. I guess this pretty much debunks my theory too.. ha

Southpark had also a method to prevent future travelers from visiting our time. Do you think we should do that?

I think there are some flaws in the search engine method for finding inquiries from the future,

First, the general idea as I understand it, is to search for querries that occur prior to an event occuring.
Should you even find a single a case of this, it indicates only that "a search occurred prior to the event."
No other conclusion can be drawn. Anything from here is complete speculation - my cat has been known to type out a few words when going to lay down on my keyboard. My point is, any number of situations equally as unlikely as time travel could have caused this.

Second, the notion of looking for peaks in activity prior to an event has been considered. I see the flaw in this being essentially the same as the first. Combine that with the fact that for there to be a peack of activity prior to an event would mean you would be looking for a whole group of people from the future - a number of which made the same mistake of searching for an event prior to its occurrence. Either that or one person from the future who tried to search for an event prior to occurance repeatedly... From different computers....


As far as I can reason, the only real way to tell if it was someone from the future was if they left some sort of tag.
For example, if someone from the future were to access our internet with a device from the future, and it left a bit of information behind. Something wierd- a backwards-compatible ip address that looks unfamiliar, a MAC address that isn't assigned to anything yet..

This wouldn't even take searching for events on google. Just search for anomolies like the ones I've mentioned and scrap systemmatically searching random events prior to occurrence.

The drawback to this is obvious- it would only give a positive result in the case that someone used an item from the future and if it left some kind of tag.

Although- as mentioned in South Park, time travel seems to follow "Terminator rules", as opposed to "Back to the Future" rules. So no bringing extra gadgets like computers. I guess this pretty much debunks my theory too.. ha

Leaving aside all other arguments about whether time travellers could or do exist, I think that logging searches on the Internet for events that haven't happened is an interesting concept. However, yes, some major events, like the twin towers for example, have had a knock on effect around the world.

But...is that not too obvious? If I were from the future, I would already know the consequences of that, but I might be searching for seemingly inconsequential things (which in the future had massive consequences), rather than the obvious Big Things from the past.

Also, there is the assumption that people from the future would be googling in the first place. Perhaps they would just be lurking around observing.

I read somewhere (and I'm sorry I don't have the link), about some dream therapy. According to this theory, it is good for communities to share their dreams and analyse them, and in this article I read it was claimed that a group of Jewish people prior to WWII all had dreams regarding being held in captivity and killed. The theory went that if we took collective and similar dreams like this seriously then things like the holocaust might have been prevented.

If the above is true (and it could be a load of codswallop) then for sure, you will have to somehow divide those who have preminitions of the future and google that, from those who may have come from the future.

SsDd wrote:

mark swain wrote:Based on human activity ? Or is the stuff we really want to read unavailable? The How Bit. ?

The most plausible of all their predictions, in my opinion, are stock market predictions. Trawling all over the web, I think all the web-bots do is to keep a pulse on the trends of how the general public is buying/selling. I would think it works for betting too. If you were privy to the entire world's Soccer World Cup related conversation, you could make a fairly good "prediction" of the winners, that has nothing at all to do with actually looking into the future.

However, with predicting natural disasters, I am afraid that I have to conclude that it is Hocus-pocus. The entire premise of the technology in predicting the future is that human beings apparently have a subconcious ability to sense the future. Apparently, we get fidgety before a big natural/man-made disaster. The bigger the disaster, the stronger our emotional response prior to the disaster. The web-bot only taps into this huge reserve of emotions and predicts events. However, precognition is not yet widely accepted as a real science by the scientific community.

I can say for sure that they did get the North Eastern blackout prediction fairly right. However, like someone else pointed out, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, and thus far such evidence has not been presented.

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere (I'll try and find it) that there were a bunch of scientists that "felt" the build up to 9/11. Apparently they picked up a change in the earths magnetic field due to the increased emotions of humans prior to the attacks. Ill try and find what it was that I read, its probably rubbish but thought I'd add it.

biddie67 wrote:
It seems to me that any research on the part of a time traveler from the future of our own time line -or- from an independent time line, (whether physically here or by electromagnetically here by some kind of advanced technology) would be based upon their own devices for searching their own data bases that have most likely taken sweeps of our data bases ages ago.

I have to agree with you. However, as I pointed out earlier, we should not distract ourselves by looking into the motivations of the time travelers. I may very well be that, if there indeed are time travelers, their interaction with our envoirment and universe would lead to a lot of physical and logical paradoxes. We choose to ignore all that. The question is, based on what we know so far, and based on our own databses, is it possible to identify time travelers?

mark swain wrote:Based on human activity ? Or is the stuff we really want to read unavailable? The How Bit. ?

The most plausible of all their predictions, in my opinion, are stock market predictions. Trawling all over the web, I think all the web-bots do is to keep a pulse on the trends of how the general public is buying/selling. I would think it works for betting too. If you were privy to the entire world's Soccer World Cup related conversation, you could make a fairly good "prediction" of the winners, that has nothing at all to do with actually looking into the future.

However, with predicting natural disasters, I am afraid that I have to conclude that it is Hocus-pocus. The entire premise of the technology in predicting the future is that human beings apparently have a subconcious ability to sense the future. Apparently, we get fidgety before a big natural/man-made disaster. The bigger the disaster, the stronger our emotional response prior to the disaster. The web-bot only taps into this huge reserve of emotions and predicts events. However, precognition is not yet widely accepted as a real science by the scientific community.

I can say for sure that they did get the North Eastern blackout prediction fairly right. However, like someone else pointed out, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, and thus far such evidence has not been presented.

Interesting posts here. It took me a while to get through all of them and I did zero research on my own. If still looking for topics, how about when Bush beat out Gore. Not sure what angle this would take, but it is all I could come up with.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through this series of posts and following the many links - there is so much to learn in this world and I do love these ideas.

Unfortunately, I don't think the interesting searches that you all have proposed will find anything concrete except for the possibility of certain individuals trying to understand precognitive perceptions or those involved in remote viewing.
(( BTW, I couldn't get that Torrent search to work for me either. ))

It seems to me that any research on the part of a time traveler from the future of our own time line -or- from an independent time line, (whether physically here or by electromagnetically here by some kind of advanced technology) would be based upon their own devices for searching their own data bases that have most likely taken sweeps of our data bases ages ago.

They would probably have no need to waste their time looking into our data bases. If they had taken the effort to reach us it would probably be for organic things that are extinct in their own time - such as certain DNA sequences, some kinds of reproductive means, some kinds of viruses ..... or maybe some rare earth metals ..... or maybe the equivalent of a couple of teenage hackers out for the challenge ....

SsDd wrote:Since then, they claim to have expanded the project, and include a long list of events they they claim to have predicted a full 60-90 days before they occured. Prominent of them include 9/11 terrorist attacks, and Katrina http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Bot. Whats more, they even claim that their Web-Bot predicts that the world will end in 2012. Let that sink in for a minute.

Based on human activity ? Or is the stuff we really want to read unavailable? The How Bit. ?

Chris Peterson wrote: nothing in the links you posted comes close to convincing me that anybody has done so./

Here is a link to the page, that claims go have predicted the New York blackout:-

http://www.urbansurvival.com/bothit5.htm . The bots seemed to have thought of it as a terrorist attack, prior to the incident.


The actual web-bot report, can be read here:-
http://www.urbansurvival.com/newbots.htm
I verified, using the wayback machine, that it was indeed posted on July 2, 2003, while the blackout itself happened on 14th August 2003. We could, of course argue that it was just a random stab in the dark, and that one "hit" does not prove anything. I am still looking into this, and will bring you more updates.

rstevenson wrote:"Yesterday, I came across some seriously scary stuff that kept me awake for the better part of the night. ..."

Rob

Okay, I shamefully admit that it was a little over the top. The idea that time could be fluid, or that the present/past and future are but a perception of the mind is a bit unsettling. The results of the predictions are not as troubling as the predictive nature itself.

One way of verifying the veracity of those claims, are by looking, as you pointed out, at the time stamps of the website. One way of doing that is to use "The Wayback Machine" http://www.archive.org/web/web.phpm that acts as an internet archive or sorts. It keeps track of the history of the website, and it can "take you back in time" to how and when websites were updated or created. I will look into it, and get back to this board.