APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by starman » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:50 pm

supamario wrote:Great photo, Alex.
You could spend a few moments and imagine this could be taken from a probe that landed on a distant rocky/water planet light years away from earth.
The Sun being the yellowish star below Alpha Centauri.
Mario
(or "alpha Centaurus" if you go down the no-Latin route)
Incidentally, you can work out in your head where the Sun would be from any other star. Just reverse the polarity of that star's declination and add 12h to its RA - so from alpha Centauri (off the top of my head it's about 14h RA, -60° dec) the Sun would be at about 2h RA, 60°N, forming a bright addition to the left of the W of Cassiopeia! You can also do the same for other stars, though some pretty lovely maths are involved. I've written a windows app to do this, and it's freeware, so this isn't advertising (well, not 'commercial advertising'!)

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by neufer » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:21 pm

León wrote:
One inside the other outside soon to also be inside, just as timely globular cluster was incorporated by the Milky Way for Small Magellanic Cloud is the destination set, will be trapped in the same way that the octopus embraces the rock.
  • O B A F G K M (R N S):
Octopus Brains, A Fine Gastronomical Kitchen Menu, Require No Sauce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus wrote:
<<Paul the Octopus's accurate choices for the 2010 World Cup, broadcast live by German news channel NTV, have endowed him with celebrity status. Paul predicted the winners of each of the seven 2010 FIFA World Cup matches that the German team played, against Australia, Serbia, Ghana, England, Argentina, Spain, and Uruguay. Paul correctly predicted the outcome of the semi-final, by choosing the food in the box marked with the Spanish flag. The prediction led to death threats as German fans called for Paul to be cooked and eaten. In response, Spanish prime minister Jose Zapatero offered to send Paul official state protection. Paul maintained a 100% accurate record during the tournament by correctly predicting Spain's victory over the Netherlands in the final.
The probability of Paul's FIFA feat is 0.12%. Given Paul was only given 2 choices, a conservative estimate remains p = 0.0039. Of course there were many public predictions about World Cup results using quirky methods that were wrong and hence did not get international attention. Paul started to receive international recognition after he correctly predicted Germany's win over England, and after that he only made four correct predictions. The chance of those final four predictions being correct is 6.25% (odds 15/1).

Some other oracles did not fare so well in the World Cup. The animals at the Chemnitz Zoo in Germany were wrong on all of Germany's group-stage games, with Leon the porcupine picking Australia, Petty the pygmy hippopotamus spurning Serbia's apple-topped pile of hay, and Anton the tamarin eating a raisin representing Ghana. Mani the Parakeet of Singapore picked the Netherlands to win the final.>>

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:38 pm

starman wrote:... or if you adopt the "English" version, Alpha Centaurus...
Actually, I don't. That's because this star name (and a few others) has essentially become a proper noun- the Bayer designation is treated as the common star name.
Incidentally, you can find out where the Sun would appear from any point in space by reversing the sign of, and adding 12h right ascension, to the coordinates of your chosen star. So, if you wanted the Sun to appear "just below alpha Cen" - let's say that the position you want is 14h RA and -65° declination - the star you'd be viewing it from would be at an earthly position of 2h RA, 65°North. You can also do this for any other star, though it does involve some lovely maths! From alpha Centauri, the Sun would appear in Cassiopeia, as an addition to the familiar W!
In the case of Alpha Centauri, the "W" of Cassiopeia would be much as we see it from here. But for most of stars you might try this with, you should keep in mind that the sky looks quite different from their perspective. You can easily figure where the Sun would be, but the shapes of the constellations will mostly be distorted beyond recognition.

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by starman » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:20 pm

supamario wrote:Great photo, Alex.
You could spend a few moments and imagine this could be taken from a probe that landed on a distant rocky/water planet light years away from earth.
The Sun being the yellowish star below Alpha Centauri.
Mario
... or if you adopt the "English" version, Alpha Centaurus ;-)
Incidentally, you can find out where the Sun would appear from any point in space by reversing the sign of, and adding 12h right ascension, to the coordinates of your chosen star. So, if you wanted the Sun to appear "just below alpha Cen" - let's say that the position you want is 14h RA and -65° declination - the star you'd be viewing it from would be at an earthly position of 2h RA, 65°North. You can also do this for any other star, though it does involve some lovely maths! From alpha Centauri, the Sun would appear in Cassiopeia, as an addition to the familiar W!

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by neufer » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:51 am

León wrote:
One inside the other outside soon to also be inside, just as timely globular cluster was incorporated by the Milky Way for Small Magellanic Cloud is the destination set, will be trapped in the same way that the octopus embraces the rock.
  • O B A F G K M (R N S):
Octopus Brains, A Fine Gastronomical Kitchen Menu, Require No Sauce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus wrote:
<<Paul Allen the Octopus or Paul Oktopus is a common octopus, used as an oracle to predict the results of German international football matches.

Paul is presented with two boxes, each containing food, and each marked with the flag of a national team. He is reported to have correctly chosen the box with the flag of the winning team in five of Germany's six Euro 2008 matches, and in each of their first six matches in the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Paul was hatched from an egg at the Sea Life Centre in Weymouth, England, and now lives in a tank at Sea Life Oberhausen, a commercial attraction in Germany. Paul's name was taken from the title of a poem by the German children's writer Boy Lornsen: Der Tintenfisch Paul Oktopus. According to Sea Life's entertainment director, Daniel Fey, Paul demonstrated his intelligence early in life:
  • "There was something about the way he looked at our visitors when they came close to the tank. It was so unusual, so we tried to find out what his special talents were."
During the lead-up to German international football matches, Paul the Octopus was presented with two similar clear plastic boxes, each one containing food such as a mussel or an oyster. Both containers were marked with a flag; one with the flag of Germany, and the other with the flag of Germany's opponent. In each instance, Paul's first choice of the two boxes was interpreted as being the animal's prediction as to which would be the victorious team. Paul was used during UEFA Euro 2008 to correctly predict the outcome of 80% of Germany's matches, but failed to predict their defeat to Spain in the championship's final.

2010 FIFA World Cup

Paul has predicted the winners of each of the six 2010 FIFA World Cup matches the German team has played so far, against Australia, Serbia (which Germany lost), Ghana, England, Argentina, and Spain. His prediction that Argentina would lose prompted Argentine chef Nicolas Bedorrou to post an Octopus recipe on Facebook.
  • "There are always people who want to eat our octopus but he is not shy and we are here to protect him as well. He will survive."
    —Oliver Walenciak (Paul's keeper)
Paul correctly predicted the outcome of the semi finals, by choosing the box marked with the Spanish flag. German supporters drew hope from his incorrect choice for the Germany versus Spain match in the UEFA Euro 2008, but this time they were disappointed and the result led to death threats. Since the latest prediction, Germans are no longer praising their octopus, instead calling for Paul to be cooked and eaten. The Spanish Industry Minister Miguel Sebastian called for Paul to be given safe haven in Spain, while prime minister Jose Zapatero jokingly offered to send an official state protection team to prevent the octopus from being eaten by angry Germans.

Statistical analysis

Paul's accurate predictions for the 2010 World Cup, broadcast live by German news channel NTV, have endowed him with celebrity status. Based on the Binomial Distribution in probability theory, if the prediction exercise was not biased, the probability of at least 11 correct prediction in 12 matches would be approximately 0.3%. However, the octopus chose Germany as the winning team 9 out of 12 times, which is significantly different from a 50% chance of picking each box. If the exercise was biased in favor of picking Germany, then the octopus would have a better chance at success since Germany was the favorite in many of these matches.

The German flag.

According to Janet Voight at the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History there is no evidence that the Octopus vulgaris has colour vision, and it is unlikely that colour played a part in Paul's preferences. However, Shelagh Malham of Bangor University, said octopuses can distinguish brightness, and are drawn to bold horizontal shapes.

Paul Connolly of the Daily Mail speculated that Paul may have chosen the German, Spanish and Serbian flags because each of them display horizontal shapes. And he may have picked between the flags because the Spanish flag has a broader horizontal stripe than the German flag, and the Serbian flag is more vivid than the German flag.

Volker Miske, an expert at the University of Greifswald and mentor of the German "Coleoidea Archive" sees minor chemical differences as background of Paul's decisions. He might be able to distinguish minor differences of the size of the mussels or chemical traces of the flags colors via the scent sensors in his arms. Even minor differences in the closure of the boxes might be significant as well.>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus wrote:
<<Octopuses are highly intelligent, probably more intelligent than any other order of invertebrates. The exact extent of their intelligence and learning capability is much debated among biologists, but maze and problem-solving experiments have shown that they do have both short- and long-term memory. Their short lifespans limit the amount they can ultimately learn. There has been much speculation to the effect that almost all octopus behaviors are independently learned rather than instinct-based, although this remains largely unproven. They learn almost no behaviors from their parents, with whom young octopuses have very little contact.

In laboratory experiments, octopuses can be readily trained to distinguish between different shapes and patterns. They have been reported to practice observational learning, although the validity of these findings is widely contested on a number of grounds. Octopuses have also been observed in what some have described as play: repeatedly releasing bottles or toys into a circular current in their aquariums and then catching them. Octopuses often break out of their aquariums and sometimes into others in search of food. They have even boarded fishing boats and opened holds to eat crabs.>>

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by owlice » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:13 pm

biddie, assistance and answers to all your questions is just a click away.

To the trails!

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by biddie67 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:52 pm

Alex - thanks for taking the time to write up your family's story behind the photos - I loved the companion photo as well - they make a great pair! Iceinspace was fun to explore - I put it on my list of favorites to explore again in the future.


Owlice - love the biking tour link - I've followed her trip for the first 6 pages but will get back to it - probably tonight!

I would love to try a "cycleabout"!! However, from a brief experience in my 50's when a Galveston hurricane flooded out my car and I had to bike to work for 6 months, I'll need a really comfy seat!!

I know from nothing about training, equipment, etc. but I'd love to be included in a group for a trip like this - your 3 years target gives me plenty of time to learn enough to see if it would be feasible for me. I'm going to go dig my ol' "trusty rusty" out of the shed to see if she can be reclaimed enough to try her out again ......

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by Beyond » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:29 pm

Iceinspace has some nice pictures, but some of those smilie's are something else!

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by RJN » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:12 pm

Thanks, Alex, for sharing your story. - RJN

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by Ann » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:09 pm

That's a wonderful photo, and I loved hearing the story behind it!

Ann

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by owlice » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:03 pm

Alex, thank you very much for sharing your story! How cool that your family goes with you, too!

Biddie, that means you have a 70th birthday to celebrate between now and then; here's how one woman celebrated hers: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page ... 96915&v=9f

How do you feel about making it a cycleabout? :-D

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by biddie67 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:27 pm

Owlice - what an adventure!! I'd loved to plan for a month's walkabout - I've wanted to visit Australia/New Zealand ever since the last ice age .... ((grin)) I'll be 72 in 3 years but hopefully, I'll still have enough git-up in my git-along .....

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by supamario » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:23 am

Great photo, Alex.
You could spend a few moments and imagine this could be taken from a probe that landed on a distant rocky/water planet light years away from earth.
The Sun being the yellowish star below Alpha Centauri.
Mario

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by terrastro » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:07 am

Hi Robert,

Well, I guess there is some kind of a story behind almost any picture.

Our passion with astronomy started when my daughter asked if we can find aliens three years ago, she was four at that time. So we got a department store Newtonian telescope and a pair of binoculars. When I looked at Venus and Saturn I knew there was no coming back.The small Newtonian telescope made room for a Dobsonian, then a larger one and again... I am not sure what aperture is needed to find those aliens but we keep trying.

During a Border Stargaze Astrofest last year (held near Albury on the border of New South Wales and Victoria) I borrowed a tripod and pointed my DSLR at the sky and that added another dimension to my hobby. We are lucky in Australia and have access to true dark skies and amazing landscapes not too far away from the major cities and I aim to show familiar landscapes under the night skies.

I always plan my night photography a few days or even weeks ahead and try to go out every new moon if the weather permits. In June I wanted to get Moon and Venus conjunction above the ocean to capture the water-reflected light path from both, so that was the prime objective for the trip to Cape Schanck. Here are two images from the same night at the Cape:
Moon, Venus and Lighthouse
Moon and Venus light path

We like to go there with our family in summer and I know the place reasonably well. After taking the Moon shots I walked down to the ocean and tried to find the right angle, which took a while and I waited for the Milky Way centre to rise a bit higher. The taller rocks were lit by the lighthouse but the beach wasn't and the image looked unbalanced. So I experimented with light-painting it using an ordinary torch. With that image, I took eight 30-second exposures whilst painting with the torch to make the effect smooth and subtle. I then stacked the 8 images together and used a single 30-second exposure of the sky. Other than stacking the foreground images I did not need to post-process it much because the skies were quite dark and the red-coloured glow was a bonus. I had to finish early though as the dew was forming too fast on the lens near the ocean.

I am quite happy with the result and my family liked it. I usually post my images on the Australian astronomy forum IceInSpace and this image got positive feedback, so I knew it was a good one.

Thank you so much for choosing it to display on the APOD page and showing to so many people in the world!

Cheers,
Alex

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by RJN » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:18 pm

Alex,

Is there an interesting back story behind the taking of this picture? For example, did you expend some effort finding just the right spot? Did you research just the right time to take the image? Was anyone else there with you helping out? How many similar images did you take that night? Did you think this was a good image from the start? What did your friends think of the image? Did you do much post-processing of the image? If so, what? Thanks, for giving this image a greater human dimension with your answers, if you can.

- RJN

Re: 47 Tucanae

by Chris Peterson » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:23 pm

Case wrote:Use of the Latin genitive shows a bit of education, perhaps as well as appreciation of (western) language heritage.
That argument was used to force scientists to publish in Latin until not all that long ago. Pretty silly, IMO. Using Latin genitives when you are speaking English is simply illogical. It's a convention, and nothing else. Very few astronomers who inflect star names this way actually know enough Latin to be considered educated in that subject!
I see no need to intentionally use the wrong words, especially when talking about subjects restricted to any professional field, scientific or otherwise.
Neither do I. So I choose to use words that are correct. But where there are multiple correct choices, I'll choose which I prefer.
It is #47 of Tucana; Tucana's 47, if you will. It's only right to reflect the genitive case.
Do you use the genitive with dates? It is still common in some places, but most of the English speaking world has largely dropped it. How about street addresses? There are many examples of an implied genitive where it isn't used explicitly.

Anyway, feel free to follow the convention. I have no objection to your doing so. But for myself, I feel it serves no purpose, adds no value, but does slightly obfuscate things for many people. So I'll advocate for a simpler system the easy way... by using it.

I also avoid using Latin plurals when there is an accepted alternative- thus, novas, nebulas, etc. (Or should I say and so forth <g>.)

47 Tucanae

by Case » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:59 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:It's a stupid and useless convention
Use of the Latin genitive shows a bit of education, perhaps as well as appreciation of (western) language heritage. I see no need to intentionally use the wrong words, especially when talking about subjects restricted to any professional field, scientific or otherwise.
It is #47 of Tucana; Tucana's 47, if you will. It's only right to reflect the genitive case.
If you're using the Flamsteed designation, you should do so as he described his list, using the Latin genitive of the constellation it lies in, even if the list was first published a long time ago (1712).

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by owlice » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:45 pm

bystander wrote:Due to owlice's blatant promotion of her favorite
lol!! Now that's a scary thought!!

I love the picture and was really happy to see it as today's APOD! I love the write-up, too, because it answered questions I had about the picture (even some questions I didn't know I had until I read the text!). That's one of the things I like most about APOD -- those moments when I see/read something and go "Wow!" or "Huh! Didn't know that!" (I say that a lot) or am completely gobsmacked, or have "Cooooooooooooooool!!!!!" come to mind. And finding poetry, art, music, history, and those laugh-out-loud lines tucked into the explanations... well, it's easy to see why APOD is as popular as it is!

Congratulations, Alex! And welcome to the Asterisk!

Hey, biddie, join me on my Australia trek! I've got three more years of college to pay for, and then it's off to see (more of) the world!

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by bystander » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:28 pm

terrastro wrote:Thanks everyone! I am pleasantly shocked to see it did make the APOD.
...
Cheers,
Alex
Congratulations on your APOD and
Welcome Aboard the Starship Asterisk*


Very nice picture, Alex! Thanks

This image was first seen on the Observation Deck.

Due to owlice's blatant promotion of her favorite, :mrgreen:
It made the pages of APOD over my personal favorite:

Stairway to Heaven (Copyright: Alex Cherney)
Image

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by Beyond » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:54 pm

Except for the ground fog, what an agreeable picture for everyone. There must be something about stareing into the great unknown that kinda pulls at everyone, like a longing to return to where everything started. Well........perhaps some future day........

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by biddie67 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:40 pm

Go for it, Chris!!!

What a wonderful photo - if I lived there, I'd could turn into a totally noctural creature just to be able to glance up for this view!

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by Chris Peterson » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:56 pm

jisles wrote:BTW it's 47 Tucanae, not 47 Tucana.
That's convention, nothing else. There is no possibility of confusion by eliminating the use of the Latin genitive. I always make it a point to do just that. It's a stupid and useless convention that pushes astronomy a little further from people without scientific training. The good thing about English is that its rules are determined strictly by common usage, and the way to change English is to use it differently. Eliminating the Latin genitive in star names is my little effort to push the language in the direction I think it needs to go! <g>

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by moonstruck » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:54 pm

That is absolutely one beautiful picture. Way to go Alex. Nice work.

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by jisles » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:48 pm

BTW it's 47 Tucanae, not 47 Tucana.

Re: APOD: The Milky Way Over Pulpit Rock (2010 Jul 05)

by León » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:08 pm

One inside the other outside soon to also be inside, just as timely globular cluster was incorporated by the Milky Way for Small Magellanic Cloud is the destination set, will be trapped in the same way that the octopus embraces the rock.

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