APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

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Expand view Topic review: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by mpharo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:34 am

The nebulea that is in the picture (Thor's helmet) has a close resemblace to two things from what I see: One, it looks like a helmet with horns, sort of what the vikings were thought to wear. On the other hand, it also looks like a giant tortoise walking over a branch that broke beneath his weight.

mpharo

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by kevinbane » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Hello everyone,

I've been enjoying reading the APOD forum and I wanted to share with you all what I see in this image.

I have Thors Helmet up as the background on my PC. The other day I was leaning to get my headphones and out of the corner of my eye I saw an image that I am calling "Thor's Profile".

I asked Herb, an artist friend of mine, to help show what it is I'm seeing so I could share it with everyone. Attached are step by step attempts at trying to isolate the image:

Image

1 - The original Thor's Helmet image.
2 - A first attempt at isolating "Thors Profile" which gives you an idea of what I saw. Herb decided to scrap this attempt and start over.

Image

3 - In this image the contrast of the colors was significantly increased from the original. We lost most of the "neck" doing this but it is now much easier to see the profile.
4 - The image was changed to black and white. Color from image 3 is re-introduced ONLY in areas that help distinguish the facial features.
5 / 6 - The features are starting to stand out and the image is then isolated.

Image

7 - A larger view of image 6. "Thor's Profile". If you look closely you can see what look like eyelids, a pupil, a nose, a mouth, cheekbones and what could be a 5 oclock shadow.

I hope you enjoyed this, it was fun putting it all together!

Kevin

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Beyond » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:15 am

UUUUMMMMmmm...........No, not a morlock. But maybe a close relative - A LessLock. They were on the other side of the planet and did not eat the Eloi.
They had more of a blueish tint to their skin. They could go out in the sun for a little while.
HG Wells was so busy concentrating on the Gray Morlock----Eloi situation that He completely missed the other species of Blue Morlock.
Actually i would not be surprised if He missed a different species of Eloi also.
Perhaps Rod Taylor discovered them after He went back to the future? I guess we will never really know. :(

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by rstevenson » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:31 pm

That is obviously a cosmic portrait of a Morlock.

Rob
morlock.jpg
morlock.jpg (46.76 KiB) Viewed 1033 times

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Beyond » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:33 pm

Oh yeah, i had to stare a bit, but i can see both of them. Think we should re-name it "Mount Bubble-More"??

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by lesul » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:27 pm

I'm crazy about faces in the space and here is a part of orginal picture (only green arrows added). Look carefully: did you see this figures? This is something like Mount Rushmore or what?
Image
And can you find a rabbit in this picture? White rabbit.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by DavidLeodis » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:04 pm

beyond wrote:Even though i think it looks more like a nice blue Tortise, I'm going to keep MY Helmet handy in case those who have a "bone" to pick with you about your viewpoint start throwing them at you. :lol:
That made me :), particularly the "bone" bit. :lol:

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Beyond » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:51 pm

Even though i think it looks more like a nice blue Tortise, I'm going to keep MY Helmet handy in case those who have a "bone" to pick with you about your viewpoint start throwing them at you. :lol:

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by DavidLeodis » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:38 pm

It seems obvious to me what is being shown! NGC 2359 is a Wolf Rayet star in Canis Major. It is clearly a dog, not a god. There is a cape fluttering. It is showing Superdog. :) :oops:

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Ann » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:35 am

Case wrote:
Pioneer 11 is now estimated to be following an escape trajectory from the solar system. Pioneer 11 will pass near the star Lambda (λ) Aquilae in about 4 million years time.
Wow, Pioneer 11 will sail past Lambda Aquilae! I'm impressed. Lambda Aquilae is a B9V type star, about twice as hot as the Sun, 52 times as luminous as the Sun in visible light and 84 times as bright as the Sun in bolometric light, that is, it is 84 times as bright as the Sun if you take into account all the energy that the star radiates in all wavelengths.

Fantastic! Lamda Aquilae is a young, hot, bright, blue star. Do you realize how rare such stars really are? When we look at the sky we may get the impression that stars like Lam Aql are common, simply because they are bright and can be seen over vast distances. In fact, 99% of all stars we can see in the sky with the naked eye are brighter than the Sun, and most of them are hotter and bluer than the Sun, too, just like Lambda Aquilae. But when astronomers search the sky with their telescopes and make an inventory of the stars, they find that 95% of the stars in the Sun's vicinity are fainter than the Sun! Isn't that amazing? If we approximate the stars we can detect with our telescopes and assume that their spectral class "demographics" is typical of stars everywhere, at least in our own galaxy and in our own time, then, according to Ken Croswell's book Planet Quest, about 5% of all stars are tiny white dwarfs, 9% are K dwarfs, and no less than 80% of all stars are faint little red M dwarfs! Only 4% of all stars are G dwarfs like the Sun, and only 2% of all stars are really brighter than the Sun! And most of those are going to be F dwarfs, just a few times brighter than the Sun! Surely stars like Lambda Aquilae can make up no more than 0.1% of all stars in our galaxy! Imagine that Pioneer 11 is going to sail past one of those rare blue diamonds in the sky! Amazing!

But what do you think about this star?
Voyager 1, in 40,000 years, will float by within 1.6 light years of star AC+79 3888 in the constellation Camelopardalis.
Lambda Aquilae is so far away that it will take Pioneer 11 four million years to make the journey to its vicinity. But Voyager 1 will sail past a star in only 40,000 years. If we assume that Pioneer 11 and Voyager 1 travel at the same speeds (which is admittedly unlikely) then that star AC+79 3888 would be a hundred times closer to us than Lambda Aquila! Well, that is obviously not the case, since Lam Aql is only 125 light years away, and a star a hundred times as close to us as that would be only 1.25 light years away! To our knowledge there just aren't any stars at all within 1.25 light years of the Sun. Clearly AC+79 3888 is farther away than that. Indeed, according to Wikipedia AC+79 3888 is 17.6 light years away. So it is seven times closer to us than Lambda Aquilae, but it is nevertheless seven magnitudes fainter to the eye! And seven magnitudes fainter means, I think, that it shines about 250 times fainter in the sky than Lambda Aquilae even though it's seven times closer to us. That is why this comparatively nearby star doesn't have a name, just a designation that hardly anyone knows how to pronounce!

But speaking of AC+79 3888, however: According to Wikipedia this star is fast approaching us, and 40,000 years from now, when Voyager 1 sails past it, it will only be 3.45 light years from the Sun! That is closer than any star is to us right now (apart from the Sun of course), closer than Alpha Centauri! But Alpha Centauri, which is intrinsically 1.5 times brighter than the Sun, looks big and bright to us in the sky, brighter than all other stars we can see except Sirius and Canopus. When AC+79 3888 sails past us closer than Alpha Centauri 40,000 years from now, it will still be invisible to the naked eye. That's how faint it is.

So Pioneer 11 will sail past one of the rare bright blue jewels in our galaxy, Voyager 1 will sail past one of the true run-of-the mill little stellar midgets of the sky, and Voyager 2 will sail past the brightest-looking star of them all (from our current vantage point), Sirius! Wow! I must say that these three spacecraft are going to run into fascinating denizens of the stellar population of our galaxy!

Ann

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by bystander » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:07 am

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:16 am

beyond wrote:According to geckzilla's link, what we are in is 6000' C. So if it wasn't for the solar wind blowing against it----we would be toasted humans!!
It's around 1500°C where the ISS orbits, and it's doing just fine. Even without a bubble around us, 6000°C interstellar gas wouldn't transfer enough energy to matter.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by orin stepanek » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:52 pm

Case wrote: Voyager 1 is departing the Solar System at a speed of 39,000 mph. Voyager 2 is departing the Solar System at a speed of 35,000 mph. Eventually, the Voyagers will pass other stars: Voyager 1, in 40,000 years, will float by within 1.6 light years of star AC+79 3888 in the constellation Camelopardalis. Voyager 2, in 296,000 years, will sail within 4.3 light years of Sirius.
Thanks Case! That was very interesting reading. 8-) Those Voyagers were built tough! :D

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Case » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:20 pm

orin stepanek wrote:I would be curious to see how our early space probes would fare once they leave the confines of the sun's bubble. Voyager! > V ger > <img>. Will these probes eventually orbit back toward the sun; or have they broken the pull of the sun's gravity?
(http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Voyagers20years.html)
Voyager 1 is departing the Solar System at a speed of 39,000 mph. Voyager 2 is departing the Solar System at a speed of 35,000 mph. Eventually, the Voyagers will pass other stars: Voyager 1, in 40,000 years, will float by within 1.6 light years of star AC+79 3888 in the constellation Camelopardalis. Voyager 2, in 296,000 years, will sail within 4.3 light years of Sirius.

(Wikipedia on Pioneer 10)
Pioneer 10 is heading in the direction of Aldebaran. According to the estimated trajectory, it has not yet passed the heliopause or the Oort cloud (1 December 2008). There is no longer communication with the probe; the last contact was in 2003 and in 2006 a final attempt at contact failed.

(Wikipedia on Pioneer 11)
Pioneer 11 is now estimated to be following an escape trajectory from the solar system. Pioneer 11 will pass near the star Lambda (λ) Aquilae in about 4 million years time. There is no longer communication with the spacecraft; the last contact was in November 1995.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Beyond » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:48 pm

bystander -- you mean we can do a "Tiny Tim" out in space past the solar bubble and Tip-Toe through the Hot particules while we freeze solid?? 8-)

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Ann » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Chris wrote:
It may contain hydrogen in other states of ionization, or neutral. Those would not show up as red in this image.
Yes, there are other states of ionization for hydrogen than hydrogen alpha. There is hydrogen beta, for example, a higher state of ionization, which produces a blue-green light, similar to OIII radiation. So indeed, in theory the bubble may be full of hydrogen beta emission, and it would not show up as red at all.

However, Chris, hydrogen alpha is the dominant form of hydrogen ionization, or at least I have always thought so. Is it really likely that you could have significant hydrogen beta emission without having any appreciable hydrogen alpha emission at all?

Also, is it likely that you could have significant amounts of neutral hydrogen in the immediate vicinity of OIII radiation, which represents a relatively "high" state of ionization and which occurs only in very "energetic" environments?

Chris also said:
Those areas look redder to me. That is, they appear to be closer to a single channel signal, while the upper areas have some signal from green and blue. The only reason the lower areas look "duller" is because they are darker. Dark pure red will look dull compared to a brighter mix of red and other colors. The only really obvious dust I see is just below the bubble itself.
This sounds reasonable.

Finally, Chris, you said this about the filamentary structure of the bubble:
It may, in part, be due to the magnetic properties of the star that through the material off. But it is probably also a fluid dynamic effect, caused by turbulence. Filaments like this are easily created by many different forces. Magnetic fields are suggested to maintain large filamentary structures against destruction by stellar winds. That isn't happening here- the bubble is dissipating and the filaments are evaporating. In a few thousand years this object will be gone.
Thank you for your explanation!

Ann

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by bystander » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:28 pm

beyond wrote:According to geckzilla's link, what we are in is 6000' C. So if it wasn't for the solar wind blowing against it----we would be toasted humans!!

What a predicament!! Have a sun and keep warm and get radiated --or-- not have a sun and get "welded" together because of the 6000' heat.
According to recent research, it maybe about to get hotter.

The density of the particles is so low that it is less than any hard vacuum on Earth. So, although the particles radiate at a temperature of 6000' C, if you were there, you would freeze if you didn't die of explosive decompression first.

The temperature of the local interstellar cloud contributes nothing to Earth temperatures.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by orin stepanek » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:27 pm

temperature of about 6000 °C,[1] about the same temperature as the surface of the Sun. It is very tenuous, with 0.1 atoms per cubic centimeter; approximately one-fifth the density of the galactic interstellar medium (0.5 atoms/cc) and twice that of the gas in the Local Bubble (0.05 atoms/cc), the Local Bubble being an area of low-density in the interstellar medium, with the Local Cloud a small, more dense area. In comparison, Earth's atmosphere at STP has 2.7 × 1019 molecules per cubic centimeter.
As rarefied as that cloud is I don't think the 6000 degrees C would be very problematic. I would be curious to see how our early space probes would fare once they leave the confines of the sun's bubble.
Voyager! > V ger > http://www.google.com/imglanding?q=star ... yM&start=0
Will these probes eventually orbit back toward the sun; or have they broken the pull of the sun's gravity?

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Beyond » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:18 pm

According to geckzilla's link, what we are in is 6000' C. So if it wasn't for the solar wind blowing against it----we would be toasted humans!!
What a predicament!! Have a sun and keep warm and get radiated --or-- not have a sun and get "welded" together because of the 6000' heat.
What a STRANGE place :!:


also--I've got windows 7. Sometimes its just strange too!

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by bystander » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:13 pm

geckzilla wrote:A lot of people ask that, tom. If we were inside it we probably wouldn't be able to see it with the naked eye. in fact we are inside of something right now.
We may be about to enter something else.
http://asterisk.apod.com/vie ... 05#p122305

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Hofi » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:11 pm

Hi,

really nice image! I like the high resolution!

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by bystander » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:05 pm

orin stepanek wrote:
beyond wrote:well that's a bit strange orin, when i click on the picture it gets bigger. And if i click again it becomes toooooo big for my screen which is 24" wide. And if i keep clicking it goes between big and almost filling the screen to toooooo big for the screen, until i click my upper left blue button that brings it back to the original size Apod displays it as.
So to me it looks even more like a blue tortise when the picture is bigger. And more Bubblelier also!
That's interesting beyond. It must be a computer thing! :? Actually mine stretches the picture and then jumps to the smaller version on it's own. To get the larger picture I have to click again. I wish the original version was the same size as my screen rather than being bigger than it.
I think you are both saying the same thing. When you click on the APOD, it brings up the hires which on most browsers will automatically resize to fit in the window (at whatever size you have your window). Click on that and it toggles between full image size and window size. I usually have multiple windows open, so the hires is also initially smaller than the APOD for me (usually), but if I expand the window to full screen, the hires expands with it.

Orin, if you change your screen resolution size to a higher resolution, you can get the apod image to fit. I always set my screen resolution at the max.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by orin stepanek » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:11 pm

beyond wrote:well that's a bit strange orin, when i click on the picture it gets bigger. And if i click again it becomes toooooo big for my screen which is 24" wide. And if i keep clicking it goes between big and almost filling the screen to toooooo big for the screen, until i click my upper left blue button that brings it back to the original size Apod displays it as.
So to me it looks even more like a blue tortise when the picture is bigger. And more Bubblelier also!
That's interesting beyond. It must be a computer thing! :? Actually mine stretches the picture and then jumps to the smaller version on it's own. To get the larger picture I have to click again. I wish the original version was the same size as my screen rather than being bigger than it.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by owlice » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:07 pm

When I see an image of Thor's Helmet, the radio in my head always plays Elmer Fudd singing "Spear and magic helmet! And I'll give you a sammm-ple." :: trumpet call :: "North winds bro! South winds bro!" and so on.

("SMOG!")

This is a lovely shot.

Re: APOD: Thor s Helmet (2010 Jun 05)

by Chris Peterson » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:43 pm

Ann wrote:The color balance seems slightly shifted to the red, apart from the fact that the blue color of the helmet is so obvious. But some of the stars look very orange, while none of the stars look strikingly blue. Nevertheless, some of the stars do display a faint bluish color, and many of the stars look white, so the color balance for the stars isn't that far off. The most orange one of the stars, to the upper right of the helmet, probably is very red for real.
"Color balance" doesn't mean anything in this image, because it was produced through filters that don't mimic the response of the eye. The image is a hybrid of conventional RGB (which does approximate the eye's response) along with OIII and Ha. The OIII signal was assigned to the green and blue output channels, and Ha to red. This will obviously produce something quite unlike "true" color.
The red "horns" of the helmet are obviously glowing red from ionized hydrogen. It is interesting that the red "arc" at lower right and the red patch at lower left are a much duller red color, particularly the "arc". Could the arc be dust-reddened, and if so, could it be more dust-reddened than the "horns"? No, it looks more like a mixture of red emission nebulosity, blue reflection nebulosity and some unlit dust, all pretty much mixed up and muted-looking.
Those areas look redder to me. That is, they appear to be closer to a single channel signal, while the upper areas have some signal from green and blue. The only reason the lower areas look "duller" is because they are darker. Dark pure red will look dull compared to a brighter mix of red and other colors. The only really obvious dust I see is just below the bubble itself.
The bubble itself is very blue from oxygen emission. It's interesting that it contains no red nebulosity at all. The reason must be that the bubble contains no hydrogen at all. The outer hydrogen shell has been blown off, and the remnants are seen as the red "horns" of the helmet.
It may contain hydrogen in other states of ionization, or neutral. Those would not show up as red in this image.
The bubble is richly textured, and I have no idea why that is so. Could it possibly have anything at all to do with magnetism?
It may, in part, be due to the magnetic properties of the star that threw the material off. But it is probably also a fluid dynamic effect, caused by turbulence. Filaments like this are easily created by many different forces. Magnetic fields are suggested to maintain large filamentary structures against destruction by stellar winds. That isn't happening here- the bubble is dissipating and the filaments are evaporating. In a few thousand years this object will be gone.

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