UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

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Expand view Topic review: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:08 pm

  • ----------------------------------------------------
    . _Moby Dick_
    .
    <<Akin to the adventure of Perseus and Andromeda- indeed, by some
    supposed to be indirectly derived from it- is that famous story of St.
    George and the Dragon; which dragon I maintain to have been a whale;
    for in many old chronicles whales and dragons are strangely jumbled
    together, and often stand for each other. "Thou art as a lion of the
    waters, and as a dragon of the sea," said Ezekiel; hereby, plainly
    meaning a whale; in truth, some versions of the Bible use that word
    itself. Besides, it would much subtract from the glory of the exploit
    had St. George but encountered a crawling reptile of the land, instead
    of doing battle with the great monster of the deep. Any man may kill a
    snake, but only a Perseus, a St. George, a Coffin, have the heart in
    them to march boldly up to a whale. Let not the modern paintings of
    this scene mislead us; for though the creature encountered by that
    valiant whaleman of old is vaguely represented of a griffin-like
    shape, and though the battle is depicted on land and the saint on
    horseback, yet considering the great ignorance of those times, when
    the true form of the whale was unknown to artists; and considering
    that as in Perseus' case, St. George's whale might have crawled up out
    of the sea on the beach; and considering that the animal ridden by St.
    George might have been only a large seal, or sea-horse; bearing all
    this in mind, it will not appear altogether incompatible with the
    sacred legend and the ancientest draughts of the scene, to hold this
    so-called dragon no other than the great Leviathan himself. In fact,
    placed before the strict and piercing truth, this whole story will
    fare like that fish, flesh, and fowl idol of the Philistines, Dagon by
    name; who being planted before the ark of Israel, his horse's head and
    both the palms of his hands fell off from him, and only the stump or
    fishy part of him remained. Thus, then, one of our own noble stamp,
    even a whaleman, is the tutelary guardian of England; and by good
    rights, we harpooneers of Nantucket should be enrolled in the most
    noble order of St. George. And therefore, let not the KNIGHTS of
    that honorable company (none of whom, I venture to say, have ever
    had to do with a whale like their great patron), let them never
    eye a Nantucketer with disdain, since even in our woollen frocks
    and tarred trowers we are much better entitled to
    St. George's decoration than they. >>
    -------------------------------------------------------------

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:13 pm

Wikipedia wrote:Andromeda was chained naked to a rock on the coast of Jaffa.
Image
Arab woman in Jaffa, 1889

(Unchained) Andromeda followed her husband to Tiryns in Argos, and together they became the ancestors of the family of the Perseidae through the line of their son Perses. Perseus and Andromeda had seven sons: Perseides, Perses, Alcaeus, Heleus, Mestor, Sthenelus, and Electryon, and one daughter, Gorgophone. Their descendants ruled Mycenae from Electryon down to Eurystheus, after whom Atreus attained the kingdom, and would also include the great hero Heracles. According to this mythology, Perses is the ancestor of the Persians.
bystander wrote:So we have Andromeda unchained to thank for Iran.

YouTube: Anubis Gate - Andromeda Unchained
Well, Andromeda was basically between Iraq and a hard place.
(But Andromeda gave us "degenerate" Electryons like _Heracles Unchained_ first!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa wrote:
<<Jaffa/Joppa is an ancient port city believed to be one of the oldest in the world. Jaffa is located south of Tel Aviv, Israel on the Mediterranean Sea. The name of Jaffa or Yafo is most probably a western Semitic one, being related to the Hebrew word yafah, which signifies "beautiful" (fem) . In the Hebrew Bible the Mediterranean is called the Yaffa Sea. There are several legends about the origin of the name Jaffa. Some say it is named for Japheth, one of the sons of Noah, who built it after the Great Flood.

Archaeological evidence shows that Jaffa was inhabited some 7,500 years BCE. Jaffa's natural harbor has been in use since the Bronze Age. Jaffa is mentioned in an Ancient Egyptian letter from 1470 BCE, glorifying its conquest by Pharaoh Thutmose III, who hid armed warriors in large baskets and gave the baskets as a present to the Canaanite city's governor.

Jaffa is mentioned in the Bible as the place whence the prophet Jonah embarked for Tarshish (Book of Jonah 1:3).>>
http://www.chabotspace.org/vsc/planetarium/thesky/constellationlore/cetus.asp wrote:
<<Cetus (SEE-tuss), the Sea Monster/Whale , is a sprawl of mostly faint stars lurking in the depths of the Autumn sky. It represents the creature threatening Princess Andromeda. The Sea Monster surfaces from the eastern in October, rises midway up the southern sky in December, and dives in the west in February.
Image
What to look for: Cetus swims south and east of Princess Andromeda, Pisces the Fish and Aries the Ram. It's brightest star is second magnitude Diphda, Beta Ceti, near the mouth of the Sea Monster. The next brightest star, Menkar, Alpha Ceti, is magnitude 2.5, located in the Monster's tail. The famous long-period variable star Mira, Omicron Ceti, has a maximum brightness of 3.4. Also of interest is Tau Ceti, one of the nearest stars at only 11.9 light-years from the Sun.>>

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by bystander » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:19 pm

Wikipedia wrote:In Greek mythology, Andromeda was the daughter of Cepheus and Cassiopeia, king and queen of the kingdom Ethiopia.

Her mother Cassiopeia bragged that she was more beautiful than the Nereids, the nymph-daughters of the sea god Nereus and often seen accompanying Poseidon. To punish the Queen for her arrogance, Poseidon, brother to Zeus and God of the Sea, sent the sea monster Cetus to ravage the coast of Ethiopia including the kingdom of the vain Queen. The desperate King consulted the Oracle of Zeus, who announced that no respite would be found until the king sacrificed his virgin daughter Andromeda to the monster. She was chained naked to a rock on the coast of Jaffa.

Perseus, returning from having slain the Gorgon Medusa, found Andromeda and slew Cetus. He set her free, and married her in spite of Andromeda having been previously promised to her uncle Phineus. At the wedding a quarrel took place between the rivals, and Phineus was turned to stone by the sight of the Gorgon's head (Ovid, Metamorphoses v. 1).

Andromeda followed her husband to Tiryns in Argos, and together they became the ancestors of the family of the Perseidae through the line of their son Perses. Perseus and Andromeda had seven sons: Perseides, Perses, Alcaeus, Heleus, Mestor, Sthenelus, and Electryon, and one daughter, Gorgophone. Their descendants ruled Mycenae from Electryon down to Eurystheus, after whom Atreus attained the kingdom, and would also include the great hero Heracles. According to this mythology, Perses is the ancestor of the Persians.

After her death, Andromeda was placed by Athena amongst the constellations in the northern sky, near Perseus and Cassiopeia. Sophocles and Euripides (and in more modern times Corneille) made the story the subject of tragedies.
So we have Andromeda unchained to thank for Iran.

YouTube: Anubis Gate - Andromeda Unchained

Unchained-V Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:21 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unchained_(film) wrote:
<<_Unchained_ is a 1955 prison film most remembered for its theme song, which became known as "Unchained Melody". The film was based on the career of Kenyon J. Scudder, former supervisor at Chino, as detailed in Scudder's book. Most of the scenes were actually filmed on location at the prison. Former football player Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch played the lead character, while other inmates were played by Chester Morris and Jerry Paris (later of The Dick Van Dyke Show), among others. Others in the cast included Peggy Knudsen and Barbara Hale, who appeared as women visiting the prisoners. You can lock them in "The Hole"...put them on bread and water...use the bull-whip and the black-jack...but they're still men...with a man's longings!>>
--------------------------------------
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052782/ wrote:
_Hercules Unchained_ (1959)

With Steve Reeves as Hercules & Primo Carnera as Anteo, the giant

<<In route to Thebes for an important diplomatic mission, Hercules drinks from a magic spring and loses his memory. He spends most of the movie in the pleasure gardens of Queen Omphale of Lydia. While young Ulysses tries to help him regain his memory, political tensions escalate in Thebes, and Hercules' new wife Iole finds herself in mortal danger.>>
--------------------------------------
http://mst3k.wikia.com/wiki/Hercules_Unchained wrote:
<<The musclebound Greek hero must summon all his strength to save the city of Thebes - and to save himself from the lusty queen of Lydia (Lopez), who finds herself very attracted to his male pulchritude.
.............................................................................
Segment One: Down in Deep 13 Frank and Dr. F's invention of decorator cockroaches gets an unintended boost from the star of today's movie Steve Reeves, where as Joel's invention of the Steve-O-meter runs into problems due to the prolific mind of Steve Allen.

Segment Two: Gypsy constructs a set to allow her to show her to be the Hellenistic ideal, but her ability in playing a harp brings this into question.

Segment Three: After partaking of the Water of Forgetfulness, Joel & the Bots try other foodstuffs and drinks which trigger other mental and emotional states: the Carrot Shake of Pretentiousness, the Blizzard of Loneliness, the Fruit-Striped Gum of Stability, and the Green Bean & French Onion Casserole of Happiness.

Segment Four: Tom and Crow try to get Joel to explain what Hercules and Queen Omphale are doing all day when they're cuddling and kissing, but he refuses to bite. Stinger: When Queen Omphale remembers the good times with Hercules, her eyes get real big.>>
--------------------------------------

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Star*Hopper » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:20 pm

Ya....but without the visible-band overlay.
APOD, FTW!
~;)

~S*H

HEAPOW: Andromeda Unchained (2009 October 05)

by bystander » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Gecko23 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Thanks for the great answer, Chris!

Re: Gravitational Lens (Flare) UV telescopes

by Chris Peterson » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:17 pm

neufer wrote:I now know why those distant galaxies in Gravitational Lens photos
so often appear as "ghostly blue skeletons".....

They are redshifted UV images of spiral arms!
That may be partly true, but I think it overlooks a lot of things. The apparent color depends on how the image was rendered (what filtered data is assigned to red, green, or blue), and it is different with different images- including those you linked. The UV Andromeda image is made through fairly narrowband filters, so other wavelengths (which would also be redshifted) are excluded. At the redshifts for most lensed galaxies, shifting to blue requires the source be around 100nm, which is quite a bit shorter than the UV Andromeda image range, so it's hard to compare them.

I think what you describe as a skeletal appearance has more to do with the fact that these distant galaxies are so dim that only the most active regions are visible once the image black point is set above the noise floor, and also to the distortion intrinsic to gravitational lensing.

Gravitational Lens (Flare) UV telescopes

by neufer » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:42 am

Andromeda Galaxy in UV (Galex)
Image
----------------------------------------------------------
I now know why those distant galaxies in Gravitational Lens photos
so often appear as "ghostly blue skeletons".....

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090823.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040807.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070516.html
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080728.html

They are redshifted UV images of spiral arms!

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by geckzilla » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Oh, I guess I have been calling all internal reflections and flares as being part of the lens flare. I don't think I've ever seen a flare without an internal reflection unless the flare was so blown out you couldn't really see anything else. Most people don't have a need to distinguish the two.

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Star*Hopper » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:22 pm

Yeah - I meant to say 'optical flares' -- total brainfart.
~*

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Chris Peterson » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:02 pm

Star*Hopper wrote:AFA the dark dot in center, a learned imager I know & respect has stated elsewhere on this board that those are in fact artifacts of the post-photographic processing.

What I don't understand is why 3, obviously brighter, in an area where only one exceedingly faint object (the globular I found in SIMBAD & mentioned previously) resides. Hence my short conclusion they're likely flares.
I wouldn't call them lens flares, since the imaging optics doesn't contain any lenses. It does contain some transmissive optics that might generate reflections, as well as internal structures that might reflect (although it is clear that a good deal of effort went into minimizing such reflections). In any case, "internal reflections" would probably be a better term if that's what is causing these artifacts. The donut shape is to be expected; the telescope is a Ritchey-Chretien design, so it has a circular central obstruction. Any out of focus stars (which is what you get with an internal reflection) will look like a shadow of that obstructed aperture. In addition, dust shadows that are not fully calibrated out will show up as donut shaped dark areas. Reflections off of different surfaces will produce different sized donut artifacts- something which is also seen in this image.

While there may be some processing artifacts, these bright spots are probably true optical artifacts. Similar artifacts are seen in most astronomical images because of the huge dynamic range of CCD cameras. If even a fraction of a percent of the energy from a bright source is misdirected by some sort of internal reflection, it will still be well above the camera's lower threshold of sensitivity.

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Star*Hopper » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:47 pm

I'm now leaning strongly towards lens flare or other photographic artifact.

I blew up that segment several x to study the overlap areas of the tori, and discovered another, though very faint, which I circled in red in this screencap: Image
Oddly, it doesn't show very well or at all in 2 other monitors where I viewed it, so you might have difficulty - try viewing at different angles, or kick up brightness.

At first I questioned why the artifacts appear here, & not around other bright sources....then I remembered this was but one image of a mosaic composite. Close examination will, however, reveal several others - hence my conclusion they are merely artifacts.

AFA the dark dot in center, a learned imager I know & respect has stated elsewhere on this board that those are in fact artifacts of the post-photographic processing.

What I don't understand is why 3, obviously brighter, in an area where only one exceedingly faint object (the globular I found in SIMBAD & mentioned previously) resides. Hence my short conclusion they're likely flares.

I can wonder - but I sure ain't gonna let it bother me! :lol:
~*

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by geckzilla » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:16 am

I had an idea that there are three circles to the lens flare because it's actually three lens flares. You can kind of see that dim, faint, purplish hue circle looks like it was repeated 3 times too. And you can see how the stars from at least three exposures didn't quite line up either. So each time the exposure was taken, the lens flare shifted position a little. One thing I can't explain is why the star apparently has a black dot in front of it. Maybe they were trying to block out the light of the star since they knew it would drown the surroundings out but the dot wasn't quite big enough? Sorry I don't have any kind of definitive answer but it might help you formulate your own ideas too.

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Gecko23 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:42 am

If it's a lens flare, can anyone provide an explanation for why the lens flare takes this strange shape, or at least provide any examples of similar lens flares?

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:49 pm

geckzilla wrote:It is a weird lens flare from one of those pesky foreground stars...
or it could be where the aliens get their crop circle ideas from.
Aliens? What aliens? _______ [H1N1]
ImageImageImage

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by JohnD » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:03 pm

"Logarithmic Spirals in nature - the nerves of the cornea of the eye"

See: http://www.iovs.org/cgi/content/full/48/4/1535/F4

I didn't believe it until I saw it!

John

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Star*Hopper » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:07 am

Gecko23 wrote:I really liked this one. Andromeda is an absolutely beautiful galaxy, and it was nice to be able to compare it in visible and ultraviolet. You can see so many details in UV!

Here's something that I found on the UV image that didn't appear in the visible. The image I cropped below includes the bright star at the lower right of the image. What could these three circles be?

Image

^^^^^^^^

My first inclination was to think them photographic artifacts, eg lens flares.

I too had noticed that region, actually, while wondering about something else -- what appears to be flare around the brighter object nearby is unsettlingly off-center of what one might expect. After your post, I decided to take a closer look.

First, in SkyTools I identified the bright central object as star HD 3914 / HIP 3293. After taking an angular measure to the nearest stars to it for alignment & ID purposes, I pulled up a 4' plot around HD 3914 in SIMBAD.

After orienting my chart with the APOD images via those 4 very faint stars in the region (roughly) SW of HD 3914, I determined they were (from north-to-south) Pul -3 50211, & 2MASS #s J00421007+4040086, J00420301+4039430, & J00420303+4038418. Pulling up a 4' plot in SIMBAD, the only thing between those 4 stars & HD 3914 - the position of your 3 'circles' - was a single object: Bol 65, a Globular Cluster, at coords 00 42 01.91 +40 40 13.0 [J2K].

A single object : 3 'circles'. Hmmmm. Unless SIMBAD's plot doesn't include all actual objects in that area, intriguing indeed.

Anybody got anything more conclusive?

+++
The whole UV Andromeda is astonishing in what it reveals. I have literally sat here for hours 'flipping' back & forth between the two images. So MANY items of interest, especially in seeing how objects so very bright in the visible spectrum seem to almost disappear in UV, & vice versa - as well as how bright they are in UV while so exceedingly dim & barely detectable in visible light. And also vice versa! You might expect most of the brighter objects to proportionatly emit more UV light - same in either spectrum for that matter, but that's clearly not the case as a trend.

Another thing I find fascinating is how much structure shows up in UV that appears almost completely absent in visible. One would expect a far more even disbursement of UV sources - plenty of them, sure, but more evenly spread, randomly across the image. Making me wonder, why so much 'clumping' of UV sources? What makes one particular region so conducive to 'hosting' a heavy majority of UV emitting objects, than another? Or more basically, what 'put' them there, to start with? I can't see it as being just chance alignment.

Truly wondering,
~S*H

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:54 am

geckzilla wrote:It is a weird lens flare from one of those pesky foreground stars...
or it could be where the aliens get their crop circle ideas from.

Art, are you good at trivial pursuit?
Sometimes.
---------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_curve wrote:
<<A curve of pursuit is a curve constructed by analogy to having a point or points which represents pursuers and pursuees, and the curve of pursuit is the curve traced by the pursuers.>>
---------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractrix wrote:
<<Tractrix (from the Latin verb trahere "pull, drag") is the curve along which a small object moves, under the influence of friction, when pulled on a horizontal plane by a piece of thread and a puller that moves at a right angle to the initial line between the object and the puller at an infinitesimal speed. It is therefore a curve of pursuit.
Image
The tractrix was first introduced by Claude Perrault (brother to Charles Perrault the teller of fairy tales) in 1670, and later studied by Sir Isaac Newton (1676) and Christian Huygens (1692).>>
---------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_spiral wrote:
___ Logarithmic spirals in nature

* The approach of a hawk to its prey. Their sharpest view is at an angle to their direction of flight; this angle is the same as the spiral's pitch.

* The approach of an insect to a light source. They are used to having the light source at a constant angle to their flight path. Usually the sun (or moon for nocturnal species) is the only light source and flying that way will result in a practically straight line.

* Many biological structures including the shells of mollusks.

Image

* The arms of spiral galaxies. Our own galaxy, the Milky Way, is believed to have four major spiral arms, each of which is roughly a logarithmic spiral with pitch of about 12 degrees, an unusually small pitch angle for a galaxy such as the Milky Way. In general, arms in spiral galaxies have pitch angles ranging from about 10 to 40 degrees.

* The arms of tropical cyclones, such as hurricanes.

* The nerves of the cornea.>>
-----------------------------------

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by geckzilla » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:46 am

It is a weird lens flare from one of those pesky foreground stars... or it could be where the aliens get their crop circle ideas from.

Art, are you good at trivial pursuit?

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:19 am

Gecko23 wrote:Here's something that I found on the UV image that didn't appear in the visible.
The image I cropped below includes the bright star at the lower right of the image.
Image
What could these three circles be?
-----------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromean_rings wrote:
In mathematics, the Borromean rings consist of three topological circles which are linked
and form a Brunnian link, i.e., removing any ring results in two unlinked rings.
Image

The name "Borromean rings" comes from their use in the coat of arms of the aristocratic Borromeo family in Italy.
The link itself is much older and has appeared in Ghandarva (Afghan) Buddhist art from around the second century C.E.,
and in the form of the valknut on Norse image stones dating back to the 7th century.
Image
The Borromean rings have been used in different contexts to indicate strength in unity, e.g. in religion or art. In particular, some have used the design to symbolize the Trinity. The psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan famously found inspiration in the Borromean rings as a model for his topology of human subjectivity, with each ring representing a fundamental Lacanian component of reality (the "real", the "imaginary", and the "symbolic"). The Borromean rings were also the logo of Ballantine beer.>>

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by Gecko23 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:53 pm

I really liked this one. Andromeda is an absolutely beautiful galaxy, and it was nice to be able to compare it in visible and ultraviolet. You can see so many details in UV!

Here's something that I found on the UV image that didn't appear in the visible. The image I cropped below includes the bright star at the lower right of the image. What could these three circles be?

Image

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by neufer » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:37 pm

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2001/0007rev/ wrote:
<<Chandra and Hubble Space Telescope images of two recently detected emitting globular star clusters - so called because of their spherical shape - were used as a cross-check to determine the position of X-ray sources near the center of the Andromeda galaxy to an accuracy ten times greater than before. The inset shows the three Chandra sources closest to the supermassive black hole, overlaid with the intensity contours from the HST image (red). The location of supermassive black hole is thought to be in the middle of the peanut-shaped intensity contours, and very close to the Northern-most of the three Chandra sources.
Image
These highly accurate positions show that the very cool X-ray source (blue) previously identified with the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy is actually about 10 light years south of the center. A second, hotter X-ray source, is found to be at a position consistent with the position of the super massive black hole. The globular clusters are outside the field of view in this image.>>

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by bystander » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:25 pm

The Andromeda Galaxy pictured in x-rays by Chandra

Re: UV Andromeda (2009 Sept 17)

by bystander » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:57 pm

Swift Makes Best-ever Ultraviolet Portrait of Andromeda Galaxy
Image

Image
NASA/JPL-Caltech/GALEX (top), REU program/NOAO/AURA/NSF (bottom)
Image
NASA/JPL-Caltech/Spitzer (IR), NOAO/AURA/NSF (visible)

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