Starship Asterisk*

by **Greenleaf** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:20 am

I found this picture a fascinating puzzle, which I worked on at odd moments all day. The subject of the sun's annual path has held by attention for years, so of course it grabbed me! In the morning I woke with the idea that the photo must have been on a curved surface. After that I looked at the messages and was pleased to find that I was on the right track. I love the simplicity of the camera!
I do think it would have been appropriate to give more info under the picture. I'm sure lots of non-astronomers enjoy APOD. And many of them, especially citydwellers, really don't know much about what happens in the (smog-blotted) sky. My confident knowledge that the sun shifts its rising and setting point every day, was shaken by this picture; I bet a lot of people left with the belief that it is always directly East; also that its path is shaped kinda like a straw hat!

by **JohnD** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:43 pm

The Preface to the First Folio, includes, by Johnson:
"To the memory of my beloved, the Author Mr.William Shakespeare: and what he hath left us."

You quoted it above!

In the end there is no question, Johnson named him "Swan of Avon".

John

by **neufer** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:34 pm

JohnD wrote:it was Ben who, delightfully, dubbed the Bard, "Sweet Swan of Avon".

Beyond a reasonable doubt?

by **JohnD** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:44 pm

Art,
Just putting "Ben Johnson" and "Stratford" into Google may not reveal the connection, but it was Ben who, delightfully, dubbed the Bard, "Sweet Swan of Avon".
Which Bard? Just Google it. But don't be diverted by the feminist argument.

John

by **neufer** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:35 am

JohnD wrote:PS but who ever titled this thread "Swan of Avon" will have Ben Johnson in his grave a-turning- Bristol Avon, not Stratford! J.

Ben Jonson never said anything about Stratford.

That was all Leonard Digges's doings:
------------------------------------------
Shake-speare, at length thy pious fellowes give
The world thy Workes : thy Workes, by which, out-live
Thy Tombe, thy name must when that stone is rent,
And Time dissolves thy Stratford Moniment,
- L. Digges.
------------------------------------------

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/ ... onard.html

<<Following his studies at Oxford, Leonard Digges published his book Prognostication which sold well in various editions from 1553. It contained astronomical, astrological and meteorological tables and advice, and was followed in 1556 by a book on practical surveying. When he died aged 39, he left his 13-year old son Thomas in the care of the mathematician John Dee (1527–1608) and the boy grew up with the same interests as his father. In 1571, when he was 25, Thomas published Pantometria , a book on surveying originally drafted by his father and ‘lately finished’ by Thomas himself. It contains a description of a telescope using a lens and a mirror; this is amplified in a report prepared for Elizabeth I’s government in 1585, which credits the device to Leonard Digges and his son and which clearly has in mind its military uses. It is likely that Thomas Digges used it to observe the sky and was impressed by the great number of stars it made visible.>>

by **JohnD** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:36 pm

Let's haave a look at "Clifton Suspension Bridge" on Google Earth, or a map, of course.
It runs across the Avon from North East to South West.
So a picture almost along its length, with the bridge on the left of the pic, is looking either North by East, or South by West. The Apod is the second of these - see the third of the pics on GE, available by clicking on the Panoramia blue square. The North Pier is built on a crag above the river- the south pier on an emormous built up brick foundation, and you can see the crag nearest the camera on the APOD.

So, the view faces South by West, which is a correct orientation for a camera to collect suntrails! I was wrong about that! Apologies!

I'm still not convinced about the number of trails, but having made a fool of myself in the first case, I'll not pursue this one!

John

PS but who ever titled this thread "Swan of Avon" will have Ben Johnson in his grave a-turning- Bristol Avon, not Stratford! J.

by **neufer** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:33 pm

cosmicstrings wrote:Thank you so much for sharing this. Very cool and drop dead dreamy beautiful.
Is it an optical illusion or is the horizon spread for sunset for sunrise different?

The view seems to towards the south west rather than due south; thereby, allowing us to see sunsets but not sunrises.
The bridge towers themselves are lit by sunrises, however.

by **cosmicstrings** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:25 pm

Thank you so much for sharing this. Very cool and drop dead dreamy beautiful. Is it an optical illusion or is the horizon spread for sunset for sunrise different?

by **DavidLeodis** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:15 pm

I think the Solargraph is a fascinating 'image' (and also the others that I saw through links from the APOD). So brilliantly simple a concept (though I would never have thought of it) and so long to wait to see what the results were. Excellent. 8)

by **Chris Peterson** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:25 am

Trode wrote::?: I love this image but I am forced to conclude this must be a painting or hybrid. I think a 6 month exposure of any speed film would be completely overexposed and wiped out by light bouncing around inside the "Canmera" no mater how black the surfaces .The cloud ? tree? on the right would have to be an extremly persistant feature.

Do you realize that the film is undeveloped? What you are seeing is a direct photochemical imprint on the emulsion, digitally scanned. I think it is probably related to the Sabattier effect, which occurs following extreme overexposure. You can do something like this using film in full sunlight, with objects like leaves placed on top. You get very interesting images, without using development, after minutes or hours in the sun. I used to make these images for fun; that was before scanners, so the film needed to be fixed, but there was no developer used.

by **neufer** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:09 am

Trode wrote: I love this image but I am forced to conclude this must be a painting or hybrid. I think a 6 month exposure of any speed film would be completely overexposed and wiped out by light bouncing around inside the "Canmera" no mater how black the surfaces .The cloud ? tree? on the right would have to be an extremly persistant feature . All in all it makes for a surreal museum quality piece of art .......TRODE

It's not photographic film...its photographic paper.
http://store.sundancesolar.com/solnatprinpa.html

by **Trode** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:56 am

I love this image but I am forced to conclude this must be a painting or hybrid. I think a 6 month exposure of any speed film would be completely overexposed and wiped out by light bouncing around inside the "Canmera" no mater how black the surfaces .The cloud ? tree? on the right would have to be an extremly persistant feature . All in all it makes for a surreal museum quality piece of art

.......TRODE

by **neufer** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:51 am

<<Designed in the early 19th century for light horse drawn traffic
it still meets the demands of 21st century commuter traffic
with 11-12,000 motor vehicles crossing it every day.>>

17th September till the 20th December 2007 (by Justin Quinell)

by **Chris Peterson** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:46 am

JohnD wrote:So that (APOD, 15th Jan 2009 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090115.html
) is a solargraph of the sky over Bristol during December 17th to June 21st, is it?
I think anyone who lives or has lived in Bristol will tell you otherwise.

For a start, there should be 187 sun trails, or gaps when the sun wasn't out.
There are about 70.

There should be 187 paths. But you certainly can't count them. Near the solstices, the Sun is only changing about 0.01° in altitude at the meridian each day, less elsewhere in the sky. Near the equinoxes, the Sun is changing by about 0.4° in altitude each day. The Sun is 0.5° across, so if every day were clear and sunny, you'd see no trails at all, only a broad swath of light. The reason you are seeing trails is because you have extended periods with no sunlight.

PS Don't belive me? See: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/ ... shine.html

Not very useful, since there's no "normal" reference. The same site has maps showing actual hours of sunshine during different months. The range is approximately 20% sunny in December (50 hours of sun), to 35% in March (125 hours of sun), to 50% in June (250 hours of sun). That seems pretty consistent with what the solaragraph shows. I don't think there's any reason at all to believe this is a fake.

by **neufer** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:43 am

JohnD wrote:So that (APOD, 15th Jan 2009 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090115.html )
is a solargraph of the sky over Bristol during December 17th to June 21st, is it?
I think anyone who lives or has lived in Bristol will tell you otherwise.

For a start, there should be 187 sun trails, or gaps when the sun wasn't out.
There are about 70.
And more than three quarters of the trails show unbroken sunshine, all day.
In South West UK? In December to March?

Bristol is a lovely city with a good sunshine record, but this?
It's a fake.

PS Don't belive me? See: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/ ... shine.html
Chart compares actual with "normal" (mean?) sunshine hours. For Bristol, look at "England & Wales" - black histogram.

So, except for January "England & Wales" was
abnormally sunny in 2008 (especially in February!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol

<<Bristol is amongst the sunniest cities in the UK with 1541-1885 hours sunshine per year.
Rain falls all year round but autumn and winter are the wettest seasons.>>

----------------------------------------------
. King Richard II > Act II, scene II
.
GREEN: Well, I will for refuge straight to Bristol castle:
........................................
. Act II, scene II
.
HENRY BOLINGBROKE: To Bristol castle, which they say is held
. By Bushy, Bagot and their complices,
. The caterpillars of the commonwealth,
. Which I have sworn to weed and pluck away.
........................................
. Act III, scene II
.
DUKE OF AUMERLE: Is Bushy, Green, and the Earl of Wiltshire dead?
.
SIR STEPHEN SCROOP: Ay, all of them at Bristol lost their heads.
----------------------------------------------

by **JohnD** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 pm

All,
So that (APOD, 15th Jan 2009 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090115.html
) is a solargraph of the sky over Bristol during December 17th to June 21st, is it?
I think anyone who lives or has lived in Bristol will tell you otherwise.

For a start, there should be 187 sun trails, or gaps when the sun wasn't out.
There are about 70.
And more than three quarters of the trails show unbroken sunshine, all day.
In South West UK? In December to March?

Bristol is a lovely city with a good sunshine record, but this?
It's a fake.

John

PS Don't belive me? See: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/ ... shine.html
Chart compares actual with "normal" (mean?) sunshine hours. For Bristol, look at "England & Wales" - black histogram.

by **neufer** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:03 pm

neufer wrote:Sweet swan of Avon! what a sight it were
To see thee in our waters yet appeare,
And make those flights upon the bankes of Thames,
That so did take Eliza, and our James !

<<The Clifton Suspension Bridge is well known as a suicide bridge. Between 1974 and 1993, 127 people fell to their deaths from the bridge. In 1998 barriers were installed on the bridge to prevent people jumping. In the 4 years after installation this reduced the suicide rate from 8 deaths per year to 4. In 1885, a 22-year-old woman named Sarah Ann Henley survived a fall from the bridge when her billowing skirts acted as a parachute, and subsequently lived into her eighties. Although flying under the bridge has been outlawed since 1911, in 1957 an RAF Vampire jet from 501 Squadron, Filton flew at high speed under the deck, before crashing in Leigh Woods, killing the pilot.>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cplaque.jpg

by **pat-on-mars** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:30 pm

I just have to say "Wow!" This is much more like a work of art than a simple pin-hole camera photograph. My hat's off to the photographer.

I would have had a hard time indeed waiting for 6 months to open that drink can.

by **neufer** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:22 pm

alexpirie wrote:I'd like some more detail on the exposure times, film and film placement, and mounting as well. For a drink can pin hole camera there is an astounding amount of information in that picture - assuming that the blanks in the solar trail indicate cloudly conditions of a particular magnitude and above.

http://www.pinholephotography.org/Solar ... ctions.htm

http://www.alternativephotography.com/a ... rt108.html

http://www.solargraphy.com/

alexpirie wrote:Maybe we should equip the Palestinians and the Israeli's with two drink cans and a length of string?

<<Ricardo Montalbán as Khan Noonien Singh, a superhuman who was exiled from Earth in the 1990s, where he had used his strength and intellect to rule much of the world. Montalbán said that he believed all good villains do villainous things, but think that they are acting for the "right" reasons; in this way, Khan uses his anger at the death of his wife to justify his pursuit of Kirk.>>
----------------------------------
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982)

Khan Noonien Singh (Ricardo Montalban): THIS IS CETI ALPHA FIVE! Ceti Alpha Six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and everything was laid waste. 'Admiral' Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically-engineered intellect that allowed us to survive. On Earth, two hundred years ago, I was a prince with power over millions...
----------------------------------
<<Menkar (Alpha Ceti/"nostril") is an old and dying star, long past the hydrogen and perhaps even past the helium stage of its stellar evolution. Menkar is currently a red giant star but as it begins to burn its carbon core it will likely become highly unstable before finally shedding its outer layers and forming a planetary nebula, leaving a relatively large white dwarf remnant.>>
...............................
Yesterday Ricardo Montalban died at the age of 88.
----------------------------------
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000330.html

<<Explanation: Yesterday [March 29, 2000] preeminent planet-finders announced the further detection of two more new worlds -- each a potentially smaller, saturn-sized planet. The parent suns are 79 Ceti (constellation Cetus), at a distance of 117 light-years, and HD46375 (constellation Monoceros), 109 light-years away. With at least 70 percent the mass of Saturn, 79 Ceti's planet orbits on average 32.5 million miles from the star compared to 93 million miles for the Earth-Sun distance.>>
----------------------------------

by **alexpirie** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:12 pm

I'd like some more detail on the exposure times, film and film placement, and mounting as well. For a drink can pin hole camera there is an astounding amount of information in that picture - assuming that the blanks in the solar trail indicate cloudly conditions of a particular magnitude and above. Maybe we should equip the Palestinians and the Israeli's with two drink cans and a length of string?
Somerville, MA, USA

by **orin stepanek** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:01 pm

I'm curious as to why the film wasn't overexposed with the pinhole being open all that time.

It does make a very interesting photo and does do a good job of showing the path of the sun as the days lengthen. 8)

Orin

by **neufer** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:14 pm

Suspension Bridge Solargraph
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap090115.html

Explanation: The Clifton Suspension Bridge over the Avon River Gorge in Bristol, UK emerges from the foreground, but rising and setting each day the Sun arcs overhead, tracing a glowing path through the sky. In December, the Sun trails begin lower down and are short, corresponding to a time near the northern hemisphere's winter solstice date. They grow longer and climb higher in the sky as the June 21st summer solstice approaches.

---------------------------------------
To the memory of my beloved,
The Author
MR. W I L L I A M S H A K E S P E A R E :

Sweet swan of Avon! what a sight it were
To see thee in our waters yet appeare,
And make those flights upon the bankes of Thames,
That so did take Eliza, and our James !
But stay, I see thee in the Hemisphere
Advanc'd, and made a Constellation there !
Shine forth, thou Starre of Poets, and with rage,
Or influence, chide, or cheere the drooping Stage;
Which, since thy flight fro' hence, hath mourn'd like night,
And despaires day, but for thy Volumes light.

B E N: J O N S O N.
---------------------------------------

Starship Asterisk*

Swan of Avon (APOD 2009 January 15)

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